wHAT REAR WHEEL HP CAN A SINGLE CP3 SUPPORT WITH AND WITHOUT LIFT PUMP 02 LB7 THANKS

wHAT REAR WHEEL HP CAN A SINGLE CP3 SUPPORT WITH AND WITHOUT LIFT PUMP 02 LB7 THANKS

You really should add a lift pump with any type of upgrade. But a single CP3's HP is largely different depending on whether or not you wanna run drugs such as N2O or "Pain". But on #2 only and a larger charger most guys can get into the 500-600hp range pretty consistant, but you will need a lift pump for even an Edge Juice with ***.

Hope this helps,
Wade

I've been doing it for a while now w/o a lift pump and pushing ~390 rwhp. Still got plenty of fuel.

I've hit 450rwhp w/o a lift pump and single cp3.
Going to order a lift pump,just can't decide which one.:confused:

I've hit 450rwhp w/o a lift pump and single cp3.
Going to order a lift pump,just can't decide which one.:confused:

Wow, you've got me beat. You've got me even more if done on the stock Allison.

Before we figue any thing out. The milage on the pump can have a large impact on available HP. The lift pump is always a good thing to have with twin pumps or not. I watched CP3 pumps with clear lines running at idle get some foaming in there from the pure suction. This can't help HP with out a dense fuel charge. The rails repack it when it's up there though. I like to give it a little help getting up there. In most cases, you don't gain to much (some cases proved this wrong) when adding a lift pump. The stock pump as every one well knows is good for around 500hp at low elevation with a good (well working lower milage) pump. With the extra air, 550-575hp (average) can be relized. I do a regulator mod (wonder how long before this is stolen too) that has netted us around 100-140 more FP of torque (I LIKE TORQUE) with a much WIDER power band with the single (comes in way earlier and stays much longer). No extra feed lines needed and the computer controls it like normal. With special tuning from Ridge Runner, you can gain even more (more pressure, quicker boost even on the bigger chargers too). It holds pressures much better with the big programs. With higher milage CP3s, this performance will start to suffer.

Before we figue any thing out. The milage on the pump can have a large impact on available HP. The lift pump is always a good thing to have with twin pumps or not. I watched CP3 pumps with clear lines running at idle get some foaming in there from the pure suction. This can't help HP with out a dense fuel charge. The rails repack it when it's up there though. I like to give it a little help getting up there. In most cases, you don't gain to much (some cases proved this wrong) when adding a lift pump. The stock pump as every one well knows is good for around 500hp at low elevation with a good (well working lower milage) pump. With the extra air, 550-575hp (average) can be relized. I do a regulator mod (wonder how long before this is stolen too) that has netted us around 100-140 more FP of torque (I LIKE TORQUE) with a much WIDER power band with the single (comes in way earlier and stays much longer). No extra feed lines needed and the computer controls it like normal. With special tuning from Ridge Runner, you can gain even more (more pressure, quicker boost even on the bigger chargers too). It holds pressures much better with the big programs. With higher milage CP3s, this performance will start to suffer.

Aside from repeating what I already said (In a much longer fashion), It'll be interesting to see your results on paper such as flow rates and Dyno sheets of your regulator mod.

And I'll be suprised if you see an actual gain as the fuel pressure regulator opens up to bypass fuel to the return system, not feed the motor. That's why the motor will go to full fuel pressure if you unplug the regulator. So what exactly are you gaining??? It's not more fuel flow to the rails. Now if you plug in a LBZ regluator to an LB7 you will see 10,000+psi of rail pressure because the regulator on the LBZ requires more voltage to open up the return, thus creating more pressure down low, but this effect is only momentary untill the motor starts to use the pressure. The other thing that doesn't make sence about your "Mod" is that you can command this with EFI. So what exactly are you gaining???

So please care to explain your "Mod" to the community so we can be sure this isn't just another "Snake Oil", "Tested", "Mod". Dyno sheets of your claims would be a great thing!! :thumb:

Cheers,
Wade

There are several modified regulators out there already, do they help? Maybe some but not to much as Bosch matched all the componets pretty well to start with. What this means is they all run out pretty close to one another, so when the regulator is maxed out on flow, the hole sizes internal to the pump are at max flow as well. We've done lots of work to a single CP3 to gain performance and as soon as you fix one thinj you run into another, that's why dual pumps are the better solution. Adding a lift pump to the stock system gives the best gain for the dollar spent but after that you might as well save up for the dual pump kit if you want big power.

Those who have been testing it know how it works. Never said it was the solution to dual pumps. Just a better solution for those who want to run the single pump.

Adding a lift pump to the stock system gives the best gain for the dollar spent but after that you might as well save up for the dual pump kit if you want big power.

I couldn't agree with you more :exactly:

Those who have been testing it know how it works. Never said it was the solution to dual pumps.

Anyone that would put an LBZ regulator on their truck would know how it works, it's gonna make your truck lope and act like it's got a cam, that's because your rail pressure is too high at idle. I suppose it sounds cool and it gives you the effect of having something hotrodded, but you can do the same thing with a tech II at idle and command it with EFI live.

Where is your 100-140ft pounds of torque comming from, or was that just a SOTP dyno result?? Just wondering?? :confuzeld

;) ):h

Aside from repeating what I already said (In a much longer fashion), It'll be interesting to see your results on paper such as flow rates and Dyno sheets of your regulator mod.

And I'll be suprised if you see an actual gain as the fuel pressure regulator opens up to bypass fuel to the return system, not feed the motor. That's why the motor will go to full fuel pressure if you unplug the regulator. So what exactly are you gaining??? It's not more fuel flow to the rails. Now if you plug in a LBZ regluator to an LB7 you will see 10,000+psi of rail pressure because the regulator on the LBZ requires more voltage to open up the return, thus creating more pressure down low, but this effect is only momentary untill the motor starts to use the pressure. The other thing that doesn't make sence about your "Mod" is that you can command this with EFI. So what exactly are you gaining???

So please care to explain your "Mod" to the community so we can be sure this isn't just another "Snake Oil", "Tested", "Mod". Dyno sheets of your claims would be a great thing!! :thumb:

Cheers,
Wade


This particular regulator mod gained me rail pressure. Does everybody know what high and constant rail pressure means (20,000+)? It means big HORSEPOWER! Just ask my competition this year at the pulling track. I gained 3-4000psi of rail pressure after I did this mod. I have logs on before and after this mod was done with the same big fuel tune. Do I have dyno sheets? No, but who needs dyno sheets when I don't run out of power at the track!

This particular regulator mod gained me rail pressure. Does everybody know what high and constant rail pressure means (20,000+)? It means big HORSEPOWER! Just ask my competition this year at the pulling track. I gained 3-4000psi of rail pressure after I did this mod. I have logs on before and after this mod was done with the same big fuel tune. Do I have dyno sheets? No, but who needs dyno sheets when I don't run out of power at the track!


You can get the same result by commanding 26K of peak rail pressure all the time with EFI live even if your single CP3 can't keep up, holding the regulator open more seems to help in the same manner. Add an LBZ regulator, it'll do the same thing, or maybe even a duramaximizer would help you accomplish the same results. Try it and report your results ;) .

You can get the same result by commanding 26K of peak rail pressure all the time with EFI live even if your single CP3 can't keep up, holding the regulator open more seems to help in the same manner. Add an LBZ regulator, it'll do the same thing, or maybe even a duramaximizer would help you accomplish the same results. Try it and report your results ;) .

Just saying this regulator mod accomplished what I was needing, more and constant rail pressure :) . You can command with efi live all you want, but if the cp3 can't keep up, it won't accomplish what you want. I'm able to push more fuel than most, and keep rail pressure.

I started testing this mod on my truck back in early July........;)

I have dozens of logs that have shown an improvement in flow as well as rail psi being higher without commanding anymore fuel pressure.

If you know what you are looking for when you log a tune or a change in the fuel system it is easy to see the improvement......:cool:

I don't get a lopey idle with the mod and it did require some tuning tweaks to get the most psi out of it..........and it did make a difference.

It makes even more of a difference if you have dual CP3's and optimal tuning for it.......

T:D NY

[quote=dmaxdog;1357404;]You can command with efi live all you want, but if the cp3 can't keep up, it won't accomplish what you want. quote]

Thank you for answering exactly what I was trying to say all along :thumb: .

I'm not saying that your not seeing results, you just don't understand where they are comming from. For the amount of gain that your seeing with this mod, you could much easier change some tuning to accomplish the SAME thing as swapping regulators. The reason the regulator mod does what it does is because the computer CAN NOT back down the pressure because of the lack of votage to the regulator without tuning it to compensate. That's why your truck lopes at idle, how do I know your truck lopes at idle do you ask????? Because I know how the system works. Like I said, try any of the other things I've suggested and let me know how they work in comparison to your regulator "Mod". Heck, unplug your regulator and if you don't blow the tips off your injectors you will notice the same results.

It makes even more of a difference if you have dual CP3's and optimal tuning for it.......

T:D NY

You can pull your rail pressure down with the twin CP3's enough to see a difference without this "Mod", Tony, you truely are the man then and I stand corrected. I better go out and get me some LBZ regulators to put on my truck before I go any further. Tony, how much do you want for your tune that can produce this much fuel and not toss rods, I'm very interested :grd: .

You can pull your rail pressure down with the twin CP3's enough to see a difference without this "Mod", Tony, you truly are the man then and I stand corrected. I better go out and get me some LBZ regulators to put on my truck before I go any further. Tony, how much do you want for your tune that can produce this much fuel and not toss rods, I'm very interested :grd: .

I would comment on your sarcasm but that would mean that I would be stooping to your level........:rolleyes:

You should know what you are talking about before you open your mouth, then you wouldn't stick your foot in it so often.........:eek:

You can do a lot with the CP3's........you just have to think outside of the box, or look beyond what products you sell..........-:t

Michael has been modding CP3's for years, he has found a mod that works, you can choose to believe it or knock it........but just because ATS doesn't sell it and you don't understand it is no reason to doubt it.

T:cool: NY

I would comment on your sarcasm but that would mean that I would be stooping to your level........:rolleyes:

You should know what you are talking about before you open your mouth, then you wouldn't stick your foot in so often.........:eek:

You can do a lot with the CP3's........you just have to think outside of the box, or look beyond what products you sell..........-:t

Michael has been modding CP3's for years, he has found a mod that works, you can choose to belive it or knock it........but just because ATS doesn't sell it and you don't understand it is no reason to doubt it.

T:cool: NY

I'm not being sarcastic, I'm being very serious, if what you say is true then I'm sold.

But if you understand how the fuel pressure regulator works and what it does you will understand what I'm talking about and it'll make much more sence to you. The FPR is not the restriction in the system, the FPR just returns fuel to limit the rail pressure. That's why if you shut it down you get full pressure, nothing is being returned, everything is going into the high pressure side of the CP3 creating rail pressure. If you go with a "Modded" CP3 regulator then all your doing is allowing more fuel to be returned quicker. The reason you see more pressure is because the regulator can't open all the way with the voltage it's being givin, thus higher pressure with out commanding it, exactly what you said.

I'm not trying to argue with you, if your right on the operation of the CP3 regulator then by all means sign me up.

I'm not being sarcastic, I'm being very serious, if what you say is true then I'm sold.

But if you understand how the fuel pressure regulator works and what it does you will understand what I'm talking about and it'll make much more sense to you. The FPR is not the restriction in the system, the FPR just returns fuel to limit the rail pressure. That's why if you shut it down you get full pressure, nothing is being returned, everything is going into the high pressure side of the CP3 creating rail pressure. If you go with a "Modded" CP3 regulator then all your doing is allowing more fuel to be returned quicker. The reason you see more pressure is because the regulator can't open all the way with the voltage it's being givin, thus higher pressure with out commanding it, exactly what you said.

I'm not trying to argue with you, if your right on the operation of the CP3 regulator then by all means sign me up.

I understand how it works, I also know when I have a modified one that is more efficient, even with a CP3 that has almost 90K miles on it, it made a difference.

:cool:

[quote=dmaxdog;1357404;]You can command with efi live all you want, but if the cp3 can't keep up, it won't accomplish what you want. quote]

Thank you for answering exactly what I was trying to say all along :thumb: .

I'm not saying that your not seeing results, you just don't understand where they are comming from. For the amount of gain that your seeing with this mod, you could much easier change some tuning to accomplish the SAME thing as swapping regulators. The reason the regulator mod does what it does is because the computer CAN NOT back down the pressure because of the lack of votage to the regulator without tuning it to compensate. That's why your truck lopes at idle, how do I know your truck lopes at idle do you ask????? Because I know how the system works. Like I said, try any of the other things I've suggested and let me know how they work in comparison to your regulator "Mod". Heck, unplug your regulator and if you don't blow the tips off your injectors you will notice the same results.

Hate to burst your bubble man, but no lopey idle here! Just a ton of smooth torque and hp, with big fuel AND big rail pressure on a single cp3. Yes, I could have gained "some" of the rail pressure back that I wanted by "detuning" my tune. But why would I want to do that? I like big fuel, big hp, big torque, and most of all, BIG RAIL PRESSURE. It's obvious I'm not the only one that has proven this mod! Again, I repeat, NO LOPEY IDLE HERE!!

:ro) :ro) :ro)

Here are some dyno sheets (sorry if the scans aren't that great - I used a trial version of a PDF to JPG converter) of my truck before and after SD modded the regulator. No other hard parts were changed. And the programming for both runs was the TTS Extreme. The runs were done at different times of the year, but if you look at the uncorrected numbers, there is a difference. :)

My truck does not lope at idle, but the throttle is touchier and I can feel a SOTP difference . Just my $.02 :D .

Josh

Michael...your stuff works awsome....your the man

Josh's runs were done with a 25 degree temp differance. The lower power was on straight #2 on a 70 deg day. The other was on a 95ish day with rather syrupy fuel (not ment for power testing on a dyno with). This was with a typicle run of the mill tuning not designed to take advantage of the extra fuel flow and FPRV control. There was alot against him on this. If higher rail pressure can be held on the same big tune that couldn't hold it before, why has it not been done? There is a very simple answer. Proof has been given. :cool:

Hey Wade.. The Pressure regulator, or FCA as the bosch and dodge boys call it, is a normally open solenoid. It takes voltage to close it. Therefore the size of the orifice is the restriction when the voltage is low or 0 volts.

SO, if you command 0 volts or full pressure(actually flow), then the restriction is the orifice in the regulator.. bore it out, and you'll find some increased flow, which creates pressure, which creates power.

The dodge boys found this long ago, but don't have the tuning capability so they had rough idles and most gave up on the idea.

We HAVE the tuning capability and this mod makes sense.

I agree with Steve though, you are going to find another restriction downstream. :D

This was done at first with out any alterations to the tune (like Josh still runs it today). Smooth idle. If the dodge boys bored it, then it's not what I'm doing. We've found the other down stream restriction and have fixed this.