Ok….I’m in the planning stages for the trany upgrade. I plan on doing this myself but am running into a slight stumbling block, TOOLS.

The whole retraining of the alli. After one rebuilds an alli one should hook it up to a tech 2 and have it do some sorta funky enguagment of all the clutches right? And then clear all the TAP cells? These are 2 separate deals? I don’t have a tech 2 and don’t plan on buying one. I probably shouldn’t drive the truck at all till I can do both right? Like I shouldn’t drive across town if I could find a shop to do it for me on a sat? I assume a quad tuner wont do what I need it to do? Any other way to do all that’s needed? Any place that rents tech 2’s? Any one close to me that wants to come over for a few brews and let me steal their tech 2 for a few minutes and for a few $?

This weekend the game plan is to rip off my PTO cover and use that as a template to make the adapter to hook my alli to my engine stand.

Any one know of the spanner socket deal for the output shaft? I remember Eric saying he canabalized another tool(that I’m sure is cheaper than the alli unit) Anyone know what fits? Anyone know if I can rent one or how much it will set me back? Or anybody want to rent a socket for a weekend?

I guess I could stick some of this stuff in the forsale after the fact. Or maybe do our own loan a tool deal(well except for the tech 2) That and the stuff to drill and tap the EGT probe, wonder how many guys have bought some of this stuff to use once?

I want my new tranyhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif

From what I understand a snap-on scanner will clear the tap cells and so will the the quad.





Make a good list of all the special tools you need. I know some of us will really appreciate when we go to do our own. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Good start to adapt to your engine stand way easier then standing it up on it's tail or vise versa ...Depending on what level upgrade your doing will dictate the necessity of a Tech II ...Even a Stage V Suncoast it's debatable on a Fast Learn and Tap Cell clear,must do ... I've seen and heard of them being done without a Tech II ...


You can adapt a 4x4 Spindle nut socket to work for the spanner nut wrench required to remove the output shaft nut ....


Another easy tool to make is the main shaft holder when you flip the tranny around ....


The most difficult tool to Mcgiver is the C2 piston return spring assembly compressor to expose the snap ring on disassembly and reassembly ...


If your going Suncoast I suggest talking to Mr Web on your rotating assembly options ...


If your doing a DIY Transgo install ,that tool is a must IMO ....


Nothing beats a Allison service manual as reference .... Available loose leaf for about 50 bucks ...


Mac


Edited by: Mackin

You don't need a spanner socket, not necessary to remove it.


mike

I just did my Transgo and Suncost tripple disc last tuesday. I didn't remove or put back the tranny under the truck however. Beside changing my oil, fuel filter, brake pads and shocks, I never did any major mechanic intervention so this was a first.

Fortunatly I had access to the Allison toolkit and the only one I used was the compression tool to expose a few snap rings.

The instruction for the C2 spring cage and C2 apply piston modifications where very clear and easy to follow. The only question I had was if I really had to drill a third hole on the piston or just enlarge one of the other two. But after reading the sentence a few times it became evident that it was indeed a third hole. The valve body instructions where not as clear and a little bit misleading easpecialy for the disassembly.

More torquing values could have been helpfull. The only one provided where for the bell housing (45 lbs/ft). I broke the cooler fitting while reassembling this part so be gentle with it, it only need 20lbs/ft of torque. The other important number was the valvle body bolts (108 lbs/in).

I also installed the boost modifier valve in the pump along with the drainback kit provided with the transgo. I don't really know its practical effect but it was cheap so I did it.

Everything went fine however, I didn't pass my tranny exam 100%, I forgot to reconect a shift selenoid. The one at the bottom who is not inline with the others. This was detected by the tech2 but only after I had filled everything with tranny fluid. A quick drain and removal of the pan settled the problem.

The results here immediatly perceived. Boy does that thing shift. Sharp and precise shifts all the time at WOT. No noticeable defuel anymore. No performance data yet.Edited by: Maxter

I did not clear the Tap cells and had no problems. It will just take a little longer learning.


I also did not need any special tools, and stood the Allison on its tail with two 2x6 boards to keep the tial shaft off the ground. Putting it on an engine stand would have been easier if you can lift it up that high.

Amric


Running 350 psi in your ATS setup put you way beyond the parameters in the TCM. Sorta like a champion olympic swimmer in a tidle wave.


As far as the C2 piston and drilling holes; this is how it works. Piston has 2 diameters (actully 3, but we will work with 2). Lower part of piston is the apply area (portion of piston that fluid pushes on) and we will say for an example only, 10sq in.. And we will also say for example only that we are pumping 100 psi against this piston. ( area X diameter = 1000 lb force). This is the force that applys C2 clutch. Now we get sneaky and restrict the 2 bleed off holes in the bottom of piston ( kinda making it seal better) and drill a hole in the upper part of the piston( the larger portion of the casting) and eliminate the C2 ballance piston ( the big rubber piston in the input drum which is only there to seal off larger part of casting) and we just increased apply area which was 10 sq in. to 19 sq in. Now multiply 19 X 100 psi= 1900 lb of force. We have almost doubled the holding power of the C2 clutch with a .156 hole and 2 small restrictors. If you guys have my book, you can look at these parts and get a better visuall picture of what I am trying to say. Sorry to take so long.


mike

Probably woulda helped if I said I was doing a SC stage 3 huhhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif


Got your book and its set up realyy well.....well I havent torn it apart yet so I dont have a 100% oppinion but in the thumbing I have done it looks good.


So for a SC level 3 all I may or may not need to do is clear the TAP cells wich can be done with a Quad box.


I dont have to take the nut of the output shaft?


I will have an extra pair of hands so I am going to skip the spring compressors.


Main shaft holder? I'm trying to remember from watching eric but why is that needed? (main shaft is what goes through the c1-c2 right?) He yanked the c1-c2 and did its work and then plunked it back in, replaced the bellhousing and worked on the 4-5 I though?


A 4x4 spindle nut for what kinda truck?


Thankshttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

I didnt use a mainshaft holder because I dont have one, too lazy to make one, and I have found, dont need one. Remember when I was assembling Johns core and I plucked the input drum in, then the convertor housing, put two bolts in then flipped er upside down, I stack the back end on top of the front end partially assembled. This aligns everything and works good.


If your gonna go to c4's, you gotta pull the nut, a 4x4 spanner wrench will work, but most will just barely grab the nut as they are not deep enough. I used my version because I dont have to worry about it slipping off when I tighten.

Yeah i didn remember you doing anything with the main shaft.


Maybe i aught to just buy the socket.


Replacing the c 4-s with new oems is still a good idea even if you havent limped it aint it? I planned on doing em anyhowEdited by: ratlover

Eric


Explain to me why the rear nut has to come off.


mike

Well, I guess you could prolly leave it on and pull the back out with the planet etc with it? Never thought of doing it that way, and besides, I went through the trouble of making my tool, so I have to take the nut off to justify ithttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif Since the tool is way to small for my other nut(s)http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Any problem with yanking the back with the planetary attached? Other than it being a bit okward/heavy maybe?


I want to do this right. Would getting ahold of a quad and reseting the TAPs be considered the "correct" way for a SC level 3 rebuild?


You get my PM Mike?

I pulled the back half off without taking the nut off. It was a little awkward reassembling but not that hard. Just take your time and make sure the park prawl is lined up.

ratlover


My pm box shows I answered your pm. Did you receive it?


mike


As far as the rear nut goes you only have to remove it if you are resetting endplay ( when planetary component is replaced ) then it is a must. The washer you see in there with holes in it is the selective washer ( they come in 6 different sizes).


mike

So I'm yanking the rear planetary and all that as one big unit. Alrighty, I dont have to worry about the nut and socket, one last thing to deal with. Now I'm down to the adapter I need to make and a way to reset the TAP cells witch can be handled by a Quad right?


Mike, I got the first one but sent a reply, mostly asking about what you have in the works. I'll resend it.....Thanks

Are you sure the quad unit will reset the taps I doubt that it will.


mike

Are you sure the quad unit will reset the taps I doubt that it will.


mike





It's claimed the new ones will but I can't confirm as I don't have one ...





Mac

I have the new Quad, and it does ask if you want to reset the Allison, but I have always answered NO. Don't know if it works the same as a Tech 2.

Amric


bullydog is not privy to GM secrets. The Tech 2 does not clear all taps at once (even though it says so) neither does it reset all taps at once. You will find that with the Tech 2, you will have to go back in the menue and reset the taps you missed individually. The Allison DOC program seems to set them a little better than Tech 2. Transgo loaned me their laptop with the DOC to play with and I like it. bullydog may be able to clear taps and allow Ally to try and put itsefl in a quasi fast learn ( doubt it) but I do not believe that that Allison gave bully something that it holds back from GM.


mike

My post seems to have disapearedhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif Anywho....


So a Quad probably wont work for mehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif Back to the drawing board and tring to track down a tech 2 or the like.


Thanks for the input Mike.


So is it safe to drive the truck a bit without reseting the TAPS? Meaning if I need to take it to a shop can I drive it there or should I trailer it? I know people have probebly never reset em and it worked fine but what is right? Also keep in mind that if I trailer my truck that will mean lots of people will see my beautiful Chevy on a trailer behind a powerstrokehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Throw Up.gifI dont want to give the dodge and ford boys any more ammohttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

Talked with Mike via the phone, much quicker than BSing via the net. All questions answered. Suncoast level 3 it shall be. Now I just gota figure out a time to do ithttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


Clearing the TAPs ASAP isnt quite a concern so my truck wont be getting hauled around behind a ford anytime soon. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Up.gif