I just want to see what folks thought.


Burner------------> http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gifEdited by: Burner

Additional moving parts, exposed to extreme heat can never be good. I vote LB7 to last longer!

W/ the extra parts the LLY turbo will have such low EGT temps NOS won't be needed until 750rwhp.























OK, my daydream is over http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Which will last longer? Easy ,,,,, Simplicity usually wins - The IHI turbo on the LB7. Besides, have not heard of too many IHI's being destroyed by the 1%'ers on this forum.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


Edited by: OC_DMAX

Well, I got to see a brandy-new LLY run on the dyno last weekend at Kennedy's and it was readily apparent to me that the programming in the LLY's turbo "backed out" at the high end. There was a very noticable drop off in HP and torque and the exhaust cleaned up as the ECM defueled to follow the turbo. Obviously there's some more "hacking" that will have to be accomplished to power chip an LLY due to the additional electronics and controls on the VV turbo. I think that the VV turbo is a good idea, but how well it is implemented (i.e., what boost range it will supply) and how accessible, programmable and durable the controls will be is yet to be seen. We know the limitations on the LB7 turbo, and we've got 3 years of experience. Who knows where the LLY will go?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

What will be harder for the LLY will be when the owner wants a bigger turbo.... SES codes all day if it is looking for the encoder motor that runs the vanes in the exhaust side!


As a side note, Dodge was the first North american vehicle to use the VNT/VGT/VATN/VVT


on shelby CSX's 1988.5-1989


on shelby daytonas 1989 only

LB7's would be my guess too... look at how bad many of have abused them w/o grenading them.. i doubt the VVT will be as acceptable to abuse..

Amen, Diesel Power. The LB7 has a long standing tried and true design. I'm sure GM wouldn't put a questionable turbo on there new trucks however. We'll have to wait and see. VIVA LB7 & LLY. Super Diesel

is the LLY turbo cooled by coolant like the IHI

Hmm,


seems most of us agree that simpler is more durable, but the vote results are not showing this???

LB7's would be my guess too... look at how bad many of have abused them w/o grenading them.. i doubt the VVT will be as acceptable to abuse..


Are you trying to say i am hard on my turbo?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif





Nahhh...never happenhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Nuke.gif

What will be harder for the LLY will be when the owner wants a bigger turbo.... SES codes all day if it is looking for the encoder motor that runs the vanes in the exhaust side!


As a side note, Dodge was the first North american vehicle to use the VNT/VGT/VATN/VVT


on shelby CSX's 1988.5-1989


on shelby daytonas 1989 only

Actually, it's my understanding that the VGT is NOT electronically controlled on the LLY like it is on the PSDs (or aforementioned Shelby-Dodges) - it is mechanically controlled by oil pressure. Low RPM = Low oil pressure = vanes closed = quicker spoolup. High RPM = High oil pressure = vanes open = more efficiency.

Now, I could be wrong about this. But my source is fairly reliable. I have asked him to get confirmation on this.Edited by: OmniGLH

Thats what I have heard too....not sure though.

I have to admit not knowing too much about it, but when I looked closely at my first LLY engine compartment last weekend there was more than just a simple oil pressure regulator connected to that turbo. A large black electronics package with wiring. A majority of the operation could be hydro/mechanical, but I'd wager there's also a solenoid that will dump or bypass the oil in certain situations (which is what I thought was going on after a short while at WOT on the dyno.) The voting was 80% LB7 and 20% LLY when I voted - it sure has turned around! Well, if I had a new LLY I sure wouldn't vote against MY truck!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif I think that the LLY may have the potential to be a monster - but time and power module wizards will tell!

Well, I'm sure that they monitor the position of the vanes... which could be what the electronics stuff is. They just may not control the vanes electronically.

LB7 -- its simplicity ensures relability.


I'd sure like to know what rationale is being used by the LLY voters in this poll... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

I get faster warm up times....better engine braking when towing....sounds better.....quicker spool up...+ I own one and don't want to admit I should have kept my '02http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


Seriously, I am glad I bought a LLYhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif

Sweet looking truck......

Thank You....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

LB7 is one tough turbo so I voted alot.

The VVT is NOT water cooled and has been tested on the 6.0 Ford PSD and has been proven to grenade if the oil gets diluted by the injectors.Edited by: hoot

DAMN thats a good lookin Dooly!


When I was getting ready to turn my 6.0 back into Ford there was a BEAUTIFUL GMC with exactly what I wanted including color. Well, by the time freakin Ford stopped dragging their feet on paperwork and I got my check, the GMC was gone http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


Thats how I ended up with the same truck in Chevy.


to make a short story long, I sure do like that GMC front end but I didnt want to take a chance with the LLY after my 6.0 experience so I took the Chevy. But it seems the LLY has avoided any growing pains so its all good for us GM guys http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Currently 424 to 49 in favor of LB7 -- that's more like it....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

That dually looks BADA** KT. Nice, just needs the front flares red also.


As far as the turbos, dont know, the LB7 seems to take lots and lots of heat and abuse, some us have tore them up, but not many. I have however already seen an aftermarket variable turbo in person. Lets just say the company making the aftermarket LB7 turbo has a variable one on their D*odge.

If memory serves me correct....... GM was working on a VV turbo with garrett some time ago. Someone at GM made the choice to go with a 9 vein turbo on the LLY. Well, Ford had their (I think) 12 vein out and it was eating it's self alive, chokeing and having various problems. Now, for some reason, Ford has the 9 vein turbo like the GM LLY. I think, to some extent, that the guts will now swap. Other than the housing.... I don't know the difference?


My .02 worth http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif -------> The LB7 will outlast the LLY, have less problems and should be easy to upgrade. However, the LLY is capable of higher HP...STOCK and it should last (even juiced) around 200k. Oh, and I really like the fuel set-up much better...but that's another topic. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif





Burner-------------> http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Actually, it's my understanding that the VGT is NOT electronically controlled on the LLY like it is on the PSDs it is mechanically controlled by oil pressure. Low RPM = Low oil pressure = vanes closed = quicker spoolup. High RPM = High oil pressure = vanes open = more efficiency.


I thought it was the other way around.

this poll is broke, you can vote more than once http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

Mike, I set it up that way. I thought that folks would vote and then "wish" they could change it. You can vote as much as you would like. However, I think that the folks here will respect voting only once or perhaps three times if they change their mind.


We'll see..........


Burner-------------> http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

The VNT as its called by Garrett is electronically controlled on both the Ford and the Duramax. It uses oil pressure to move the vanes but the ECM tells it where to go. Also the Duramax uses a turbine speed sensor that the Ford does not.

I'm off to vote again, and again, and again.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

The VNT as its called by Garrett is electronically controlled on both the Ford and the Duramax. It uses oil pressure to move the vanes but the ECM tells it where to go. Also the Duramax uses a turbine speed sensor that the Ford does not.


I thought that turbine overspeed protection was probably what was rolling the power back on the dyno last weekend. Begins to make more sense and the "circumstantial evidence" is accruing.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

Can you place a water jacket around this garrett turbo? Is there enough room and how much more would it cost?

The VNT as its called by Garrett is electronically controlled on both the Ford and the Duramax. It uses oil pressure to move the vanes but the ECM tells it where to go. Also the Duramax uses a turbine speed sensor that the Ford does not.

Ahhhh ok thanks for clarifying. :)

Can you place a water jacket around this garrett turbo? Is there enough room and how much more would it cost?

NO... never heard of such a thing. The water jackets typically are part of the casting.

Anybody bark an LLY turbo yet? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Shocked.gif

Thanks Hoot....... but, what I ment was in the casting. I don't know the dimensions of the Garrett or if it could stand the water? I just thought that since the 01-03 had the jacket in it....... maybe we could make an LLY "water cooled" like the old ones?


Just a thought....... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif





Burner--------------------> http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Thanks Hoot....... but, what I ment was in the casting. I don't know the dimensions of the Garrett or if it could stand the water? I just thought that since the 01-03 had the jacket in it....... maybe we could make an LLY "water cooled" like the old ones?


Just a thought....... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif





Burner--------------------> http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Totally different beast. LB7 turbo is made for water cooling by IHI

Garrett makes the LLY turbo... totally different animal not originally designed for water so there will be no jacket. Do you mean use the IHI housing?Edited by: hoot

would Garrett make one with a jacket? That's the question.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif However, you present a good question. Probability...... is less than .01%........ It would be more easy to get Ishikawajima Harima Heavy Industries, Ltd (IHI) to make the old turbo with veins.


......... it's amazing how hard it is to type at your desk with a ten month old in your lap......sheeesh.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif





Burner----------------->http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

I believe distrbd said after his trany upshift he was geting it to bark on upsh*ts, this is with a juice module and a SC level 3.


You could wrap a bunch of copper or aluminum line around your turbo and run water through it. Might look a little funny thoughhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

The VNT as its called by Garrett is electronically controlled on both the Ford and the Duramax. It uses oil pressure to move the vanes but the ECM tells it where to go. Also the Duramax uses a turbine speed sensor that the Ford does not.


I thought that turbine overspeed protection was probably what was rolling the power back on the dyno last weekend. Begins to make more sense and the "circumstantial evidence" is accruing.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif





Not so in this case, boost is regulated by the ECM which can put the nozzle blades into a position to limit absolute boost.


IE a stock LB7 turbo can boost to 26lbs pressure post cac with a juice module and 18lbs stock, that is a function of the wastegate doing its job.


BUT with the new 32 bit computer controlling the encoder motor that supplies hydraulic action to the turbocharger (elect over hyd) if GM programmed an absolute limit of boost to say...20 lbs, the computer can trim the VNT blades to neutral pitch as to limit absolute boost to whatever value GM programmed into it....so unless an electronics guru can fix that, you are stuck, because the nozzles also function as a wastegate.

Anybody bark an LLY turbo yet? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Shocked.gif

and pray tell, what is barking a turbo?


Jim

Anybody bark an LLY turbo yet? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Shocked.gif

and pray tell, what is barking a turbo?


Jim


LOL disclaimer...don't do it!


But if you wanna know what it sounds like, do a brake stand and get 2nd spinning then let off the throttle abruptly


you will hear it.

That's just plain mean...... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Anybody bark an LLY turbo yet? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Shocked.gif

and pray tell, what is barking a turbo?


Jim


Ok, i played devil incarnate... here is what it is


http://www.lme.naval.ntua.gr/publications/papers/downloads/2001/deto.pdf

Anybody bark an LLY turbo yet? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Shocked.gif

and pray tell, what is barking a turbo?


Jim


THE SOUND OF MONEY BEING BURNT http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif

I'll bet 9:1 that 90 % of the loyal LB7 voters have the LB7 and wish that they had the LLY (thats the people who don't care soo much about reliability but more for fun...). The LLY has the bigger power potential, needs just some time to realize all the hidden power possibilities. With soo much electronics installed in that vehicle that little extra piece of turbo vanes doesn't really matter that much.

You would think not. Hey, it's just another few lines of code ...right? If Ford had problems for over a year and GM is having some (very little) problems, don't you think the "little extra" bits and programs will take a good deal to ballace out? Where is Dodge on this? Heck, we really haven't figured out the stock turbo a 100%. If I could ....... I would have the "new" stuff on an 04 with a slightly larger intake, LB7 version turbo and outlet. That's right, I wanted the old turbo in a new set-up. It's not that I don't like the new turbo and it's not that it does have more HP availible ....it's time. I have not seen a VV that has been abused as we will abuse it. I have yet to see a VV endure over 100k. So, like I said, it's not HP it's time. I agee that there are a lot of HP Freaks but most (maybe 99%) use these trucks every day and if they had problems.......they'd drop'em really quick.





Burner-----------------> http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif