Noticed both batteries have black eyes, no trouble starting yet but I don't want to get stuck. Original batteries w/ two years, 40K on truck. I ran a search and there seems to be some debate on whether Optima Red Tops or Yellow Tops are the way to go. I don't tow a trailer yet, just small boat. Someone said yellow tops would not be a good idea if only load is starting. Others said yellow tops is the way to go. Any final answer on this question yet? Thanks

I should also say that I connected the battery charger to each battery both read in the green. So I am confused if the batteries are good to go or not. Like I said before the truck has not showed signs of difficulty starting since day 1.

See how long the eyes stay green, that's the key. It's inability to hold a charge any longer is what kills them. I'd start shopping around....Better to change batteries on your schedule/budget.

As I understand it, Red tops are for high starting power, but are not meant to be deep cycled. Yellow tops will also give good starting power, but not as good as red (lower CCA). They are more designed for deep cycling, such as leaving accessories on for hours with the engine off.


Therefore, I would get the red tops unless you have a reason to get yellow tops. If you think you will find yourself in a very cold location (0F or less) and need to start a truck left out overnight without a block heater, you may prefer the red top. Otherwise, a yellow top may be fine.


All that being said, the last battery I bought (for a car) was a NAPA Legend. $60 for a Group 27 battery. I really could not justify spending significantly more on any kind of Optima.

Why don't you get one yellow and one red?

I should also say that I connected the battery charger to each battery both read in the green. So I am confused if the batteries are good to go or not. Like I said before the truck has not showed signs of difficulty starting since day 1.


Why don't you drive to an Auto Zone or Advance Auto Parts and have them hook up there load tester to your batteries, they wont charge you anything, this will show if the problems with the batteries or the charging system, hell you might be throwing away two good battery's because of an alternator thats going bad. Edited by: BuckeyeQuicky

yellow top, ebay 125 each with free shipping

Yellow top would be a must for high current accessories such as snowplow or winch, and so on. They can be completely discharged and cycled over hundreds and hundreds of times without need to be replaced.


I had one before on a different plow truck (Toyota, sold it) and it has been troublefree. One of nice part is that it is 100% sealed. No more leaking acid so the truck body should last longer.

I've used dual yellows in past trucks with no problems but not as long a life as I expedcted and did find out that they will only take a 50 amp charging current. It seems, if I understand it, if the yellows are quite discharged, their inablility to take the alternator output heats up the alternator (bad). Can any electrical wizards confirm this or blow it out of the water?


Regardless, I'm going with Odyssy (sp?) dry cells. They will take whatever current you push at them, have a five year warranty, and can be mounted on their sides.

I recommend Red Tops if you don't have a need for deep cycle use. Reason being Red Topos have a three years warranty and Yellow Tops have only one year warranty. you can also get a top of the line battery from ADVANCE Auto Parts for about EIGHTY BUCKS. What ever you get, insist on the batteries being tested before you buy. A lot of batteries are crap when theey are new.

Red Tops are *not* deep cycle -- there is a reason why they are so much cheaper.


Odyssey/Hawker and/or Lifeline are probably the best there is, but are usually more expensive than the Yellows.

Why don't you get one yellow and one red?


Because you should never mix batterys on a dual battery setup. In fact, when time for a new battery you should buy both new and of the same type.

I have an Optima in my rock crawler, the third one in two years. We put batteries throught he worst possible conditions you could immagine like hard winching, extreme heat, shock, even short circuit welding in emergencies. I will say that I've had Interstate batteries hold up better but Optima still stands behind their stuff (little consolation when you stuck 120 miles from the nearest dealer and 20 miles from your tow rig)!

Why don't you get one yellow and one red?




This is exactly what I was thinking and I'd really be curious if anyone in the know can answer this.


Seems logical to me to use a red top (higher CCA, non deep cycle) for a starter, and a yellow top (lower CCA, deep cycle) for the aux battery.


Is there any reason why you can't do that?


Or would I need to add some kind of isolator mechanism?


I think I'd read that it's best to replace these batteries in pairs and to have them matched but I'd like to confirm that with some of the experts here.


If I have to match both, I'm inclined to go with dual yellow tops since their CCA rating is at least as high as the stock Delcos, and I'd have the added benefit of running the juice for hours without worry of a dead battery.

Well for starters, they are hooked parellel to eachother. It's not set up one for starter and one for aux. As I stated earlier, you should not mix and match batteries.


You would need an isolator. Unless you have a real need for it, there wouldn't be much advantage.

If you have a plow or plan on running ACC's with the key off like a stereo system or a winch or some other big power drainer or live in a cold climate during the winter months get the YELLOW tops. Repeated drain and recharge does NOT bother them.


If you start the truck and drive and dont do any of the above and live in a warmer climate (which I think Fresno is) get the RED tops. Their cheaper http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gif Diesel Dragon http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gifEdited by: Diesel Dragon

I do live in a warm climate but like to take it out to the desert/camping and want my lights/compressor/stereo/dvd on or available at night without stress of having to cycle the engine every few hours so it seems like yellow is the way to go. nothing is worse than having to worry if you have the juice to turn it over the next morning after running the goodies for a couple of hours the night before.


besides, I don't know the meaning of "cheaper" - i bought a Duramax. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

dduffy,


The yellow tops will last longer if they are cycled, But that dosent mean they wont go dead too if you have all your lights, compressor and so on all night. It's that when the truck is finally started and they are recharged, no harm done.


So if your looking for a power source and don't want to worry about your truck starting the next morning you should either get a generator or put a couple of yellow tops in your truck bed with an Isolator and tied into your charging circuit. That way if They go dead no big deal, your truck will still start in the morning.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Thx Diesel Dragon. You have any experience with installing an isolator? Max Power said the stock install has the batteries installed in parallel, so I'm curious what the effect would be of "undoing" this to install an isolator in between - especially since I have dual alts.


If I did anything, this is the route I'd go - don't want more batteries in my bed.


btw - you have any problems with your Pace Edwards cover? I used to have one of those and opened/closed it at least twice a day to remove my tools for about 3 years and that extruded aluminum cover seemed pretty sensitive to any bumps. that was back in '94 though - I'm curious if they've improved much since then.

dduffy what is your ultimate goal?

Max Power - aside from becoming a motocross champion (I'll have to settle for vet class), I simply want dead batteries to not be a problem.


On my last K1500, I was really disappointed the first time I accidentally drained the battery and the 2ndary batt was of no use. I guess it was drained too. I'd presumed (incorrectly) when I bought the truck that an isolator was included and all I'd have to do was flip a switch to switch to my "aux" battery in the event of a primary failure. I learned that stock, that wasn't the case. Never put that isolator in.


So now with the new D/A 4x4, I'd like to do it right. From what I've read, it sounds like a couple of yellow tops and an isolator should do the trick - but I'm concerned about the effects of undoing the stock wiring, since you'd mentioned that the stock batteries are wired in parallel. I just want to be sure I don't have any adverse affects by undoing what was done in Detroit.


Can you recommend a good isolator?

Let me clarify. What is going to be killing the battery? The trucks equipment or external equipment?

I suppose that'd depend on how you classify them - stereo/DVD, power inverter, bed cargo light. Aside from the inverter, these are standard (ie: truck equipment) items included with the vehicle. But any one of them might be left on for an extended period.


I'm not implying that I want to camp all night with everything on - it's more just a matter of, if we want to watch a couple of DVDs or a laptop computer, and we run the juice for 3 hours, I don't want to end up with a dead battery.


Also, I don't know a lot about car audio, but it seems like any time a custom system is installed, they have a deep cycle battery.


So my ideal config would be an "aux" battery that I can run down accessories off of, and a "primary" that I can start the truck from. If I understand correctly, they'd still need to be matched batteries, and I'd need to install an isolator, right?

Here's the problem. Ideally you would split the truck's electricl system in 2. One battery would strictly start the truck (power up igntion, ecm, starter etc) And the other would supply the toys. Realistically, this is not really doable. Anything added in after (Aftermarket stereo, inverter) would be easy to do this with. But OEM equipment such as cargo light, factory stereo etc is pretty hard to do it with.

If you take one battery and isolate it from the 'main' battery you will just be using the aux battery to boost the main battery if you kill it. This will require heavy (booster cable size) wire. It will also not really work that good because you are boosting a dead battery with a charged one so they will level out and both be at 1/2 level. Remember, these battery have to supply glow plugs, intake heater, starter all at the same time for sometimes up to 30 seconds (Not including starter)


So while it would work, it is not an ideal situation.


Now if all your battery killing equipment is aftermarket things would be different. The dead battery would not be charged until the alternator starts charging so the good battery would be full voltage for cranking etc.


I hope you understand this. I am not good at explaining http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif


Edited by: Max Power

You did a great job explaining Max Power - thanks! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif


That kind of help is why I dig this site so much!

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif So are you going to leave it alone?

NAH! what fun would that be? I've gotta mess with it and make it "better" http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


I'll probably swap out the stock batts for some new yellow top Optima Group 31's - they have 900CCA vs 700 on the stock batteries, and a 155 min reserve, and I haven't heard anyone say a bad thing about the Optima, other than the price.


Then maybe I'll consider an isolator down the road.


I had the same problem as Dmaxducker on my last K1500 with the stock battery hydrometers going dark within a couple of years and I'm sure it'll happen on my new D/A batts.


Besides, after I yank them out, I can use them on my K1500 so that when I sell it, it has nice fresh batts in it for the next guy.

Ya, What Max said about the batteries.


Do you have a tool box in the bed? You could put 1 in there to run the extra add on toys.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif


Other than that I guess you could disconnect 1 of your factory batteries and add a isolator and just use 1 batt to start, and 1 to power the ADD on toys, since your in warmer weather I don't think that would be a problem, but if you run any of the factory electrical after the truck is shut off, like the radio the batt will die twice as fast since you only have 1 main batt now.


I had my radio on 1 day for about 3 hours and I went to restart the truck and the batteries were dead http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif.


Or you could just keep a set of jumper cables handy and in the morning get a jump from a Ferd http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif, now that would be emberessinghttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif.


My Pace Edwards works good except I had some of the powder coat flake off the top on the edge of one of the slats. I called PE and they sent me out a new one (roll-up top) with no problems, and told me to keep the old one since it would be to expensive to ship back http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif (it weighs a lot). So one day soon I have to swap the covers over.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Rock On.gif Diesel Dragon http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif

Probably one of the easiest and cheapest setups would be to have 2 battery disconnects. If you plan to kill a battery, disconnect one and leave the other connected. Once dead, disconnect the dead one, connect the live one and start the truck. Then reconnect the dead one to charge it. Simple and effective.

Max Power,


I have one red and one yellow in the truck now. I don't understand why that is not a good setup? I agree mixing batteries is not a great idea if one is say, 3 years old an another one is new, but both of mine are new optimas.


One is a good deep cycle battery and the other is a good starter battery. I figured I would get the best of both worlds. How would the truck know if I had two reds in or two yellows?


Would the alternator not charge properly ?


Thanks

I use Optima Red tops and replace my batteries every two years or before a 3rd trip to Central America, whichever comes first. I am extremely hard on batteries. I run European Off Road Racing lights which heavily draw on amps (volt meter dives to the left) to run all night and I use my Warn 15000 winch in the jungle, often for two to three hours at a time of fairly continuous use (stop and go, wade through the mud to the next tree, and so on). I have pulled the batteries pretty low, but never low enough to not be able to restart the Dmax. I used yellow top a long time ago, but they did not hold up for more than 1 trip and seemed to do no better than the red. I run Red top in my John Deere and other 6.5's, and always change out every two years whether they need it or nor. I sell the used batteries through a nickel ad for $30 to $35 apiece and never have a problem selling them. I exploded an Interstate (a very good battery) once, but never a Optima.

IMO installing a isolater on the stock truck could be a costly move. If the batteries do not supply the required amperage to the starter motor, damage could occur to the starter $$$. I do not know the required amperage for the starter, but would expect it to be quite high. I think using one battery to start the truck is a bad idea. Like Maxpower said if one battery is only 50% charged when you connect the hot battery into the system it immediately is brought down in power.


My 0.2 cents

Isn't their an isolator on the truck already? Since the starter uses 24volts and everything else 12v?

Dual batteries are wired in parallel so the voltage remains the same (12V) but doubles the CCA. Yes there is isolator so that way if you left something on when you left, it will shut off the power after a short period of time. That way, you still have power on your main battery to start the truck.

So the starter is only 12volts??? I thought diesels needed 24v crank the high compression.

The only reason that the GENERAL put batteries in the duramax was to get it started.


The alternator was put there to provide power for any accessories.


If the batterieS go dead, either the alternator isnt running or the accessory amperage is in excess of the alternators current output at that point in time.


The charge rate is different for dissimilar type batteries, therefore the charger would overcharge (boil) one battery or undercharge the other battery.


To make matters worse you would have current flowing through electronic circuits, as the batteries try to balance out the electron charge on the plates, taking place after every has been turned off.


As stated earlier you always replace all batteries at the same time with the same type as the originals.


Remember you dont need larger batteries you need 2 alternators.


good luck

Why don't you get one yellow and one red?


Because you should never mix batterys on a dual battery setup.
In fact, when time for a new battery you should buy both new and
of the same type.



I know shor was joking, but WHY do you believe the "replace both at the
same time and match them" philosophy (other than the conventional
wisdom put out by those who would sell you as much as they can as often
as they can). I don't believe that either battery has any way of
detecting that another battery is on the line, each will respond to
load and charge voltage separately and independently. Their relative
age, capacity and type should be irrelevant - no ?

ArrBee,


That isn't the way batteries work. The 2 batteries are tied in parallel to a common 12 volt buss. The batteries will reach equilibrium, causing one battery to discharge while trying to bring the second battery to its charge level.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><O:P></O:P>


If one battery is very weak, it will pull the second battery down to its level. When jump starting a car and the final connection is made, it generally creates a spark. The spark is the result of the two batteries trying to reach equilibrium. The same is true of the two batteries on your truck. As mentioned many times on this post, replace both batteries at the same time with the same battery type and size.<O:P></O:P>





MaxRock


Edited by: MaxRock

I have used Interstate Megiton Plus in all my Plow Trucks. I think there are 1000 cranking amps / 800 cold cranking amps, Some times plow i run truck for 48+ hours Stright with electic plow pumps heater radion and lights {headlights, 14+ marker ligtht and Strob lights}

Thank you for telling me about the leaking batteries. I checked mine tonight and sure enough the passenger side battery is leaking all over the place on one corner. Caught just in time. Thank you!


Tim