i went to check out some dodge cummins trucks this weekend and noticed that the prices seemed very high (talking about MSRP). i have a dodge in 97 and liked it but it was cheaper, esp the interior, compared ot the other manufactureres. well the interior is still cheaper but it seems that the trucks, esp when comparing the rebates (they run small ones like 2500 rebate) they are more than the comprobably equiped GMC/Chevy. whats the deal?

did you just check out one dealer or several? could just be individual dealership. cause around here the chevys and fords are outragous. Good thing Im really good buddies with my Dodge dealer!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

I'm really good buddies with the chevy dealer here otherwise I might have looked at a dodge. I paid .875 of MSRP minus the 4000 GM loyalty rebate, ended up being a very good deal for me. However, I think that if you don't qualify for the GM loyalty rebate then the rebates were dropped from 3500 to 2500 on the first of the month.

i went to check out some dodge cummins trucks this weekend and noticed that the prices seemed very high (talking about MSRP). i have a dodge in 97 and liked it but it was cheaper, esp the interior, compared ot the other manufactureres. well the interior is still cheaper but it seems that the trucks, esp when comparing the rebates (they run small ones like 2500 rebate) they are more than the comprobably equiped GMC/Chevy. whats the deal?

Actually the GM interior is no better than the Dodge. I remember when the 99 GM interiors came out. They looked and felt cheaper than the previous years (I owned them all). Ended up the 99-up GM interior, though looked cheap, actually holds up well. I think the new 03-up Dodge's will also hold up quite well.

As far as pricing? You get what you pay for. Dodge is not a cheap truck.

Hoot, you think dodge's interior is nicer than a chevy? Come on now Bud.

Hoot, you think dodge's interior is nicer than a chevy? Come on now Bud.

No stretching... based on the fact that the a/c heating is superior in the Dodge and the Dodge having a well put together layout of strong materials, I have to say yes. And I'm totally serious. OK the back seat is smaller but the front is nice.. as nice as the GM. If you notice throughout my posting I've been consistant on this after getting the Dodge and the longer I own it the nicer it is. What the GMC had over this Dodge I can't even pinpoint now except for the rear seat and auto headlights or trans temp gauge.

Mirrors are better, center dropdown console is big enough to hold a laptop, inside with a power plug inside, heat and ac are much better, lighted vanity mirors on both visors, steering wheel mounted cruise and audio, hour meter, odometer turns on when you open the door without the key, 6 disc Infinity CD sounds GREAT, seats are super comfortable, recline farther than GMC, huge storage in the center console and also the center seat is latched and hinged to make a storage area. It's got the mileage and trip overhead, sliding rear window, plenty of guages and warning indicators including a flashing security led, low fuel and a bunch of others. It has almost all the GMC has with less clutter.

You guys that just look and don't get serious about it are just taking pot shots at the Dodge boys. The Dodge boys are a lot smarter than you think. The only missing link I see is the trans. That's a biggy. If this one holds up well you won't hear much from me about it but if it takes a dump I'll be sure to let youall know. I've always been forthcoming regardless of what I own. I'd be curious how many on this forum have held back on admissions.

This pic shows how simple the dash is but yet does just about everything the GMC does.

http://dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/4_gauges.jpgEdited by: hoot

Alot of people that move into to the Ghetto after 4 months will even say ,Hey this aint so bad .....


It's called self justification ....


Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

Hoot, you think dodge's interior is nicer than a chevy? Come on now Bud.


Mirrors are better, center dropdown console is big enough to hold a laptop, inside with a power plug inside, heat and ac are much better, lighted vanity mirors on both visors, steering wheel mounted cruise and audio, hour meter, odometer turns on when you open the door without the key, 6 disc Infinity CD sounds GREAT, seats are super comfortable, recline farther than GMC, huge storage in the center console and also the center seat is latched and hinged to make a storage area. It's got the mileage and trip overhead, sliding rear window, plenty of guages and warning indicators including a flashing security led, low fuel and a bunch of others. It has almost all the GMC has with less clutter.

Actually, most of the things you describe above are included or available on '03 & up GM trucks. GM steering wheel controls cover a lot more functions than the Dodge, & I think the 6-disc Bose sounds as well as the 6-disc Infinity. Plus you get standard dual-zone climate control with the GMs (sure nice with my cold-blooded wife!), unlike the Dodge where you have to get the up-level Laramie package to get dual-zone & it's not even automatic. Dodge does have better mirrors, & that center fold up seat is a great idea. The flat-folding rear floor option is pretty slick, too. I was surprised Dodge didn't even offer bucket seats as an option, though.

I'm not trying to slam you, Hoot, since I sure appreciate your how-to posts, but it sounds like you didn't even consider a new GMC.

Of course they are .....


The Band was Playing ,the wagon drove thru and someone jumped on ........





TOOT TOOT ...





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

I looked at all 3 when I bought my new truck. The prices were all about the same for the same levels. After seeing that I went looked at the performance of the drivetrain. Due to wanting an automatic, that eliminated Dodge. Chevy is one up on Ford right now with the D/A setup. Fords 6.0 is not the 7.3, witch is what I had. The torque shift is not proven either. The interior is only close if you get a King Ranch (very nice leather), but still only close.


The interior is what nailed it. The wife got a 03 Tahoe LT last year and ever since I drove that, my Ford was my beater. The leather power bucket seats are so comfortable, the only time I have to stop is to get rid of coffee. The AC being dual zone automatic keeps me from sweating bullets while my wife is wearing a sweater. Onstar is there if I need it. XM is the greatest invention since the electric guitar. Everything is where I need it. The auto dimming feature on the mirrors saves my eyes at night. My laptop in its case barely fits in the backseat, but my pocket pc fits in the console. I also have the rear seat entertainment system. Is that an option on Dodge? The only complaint that I have with the interior is the cruise control. Maybe I am just wining, but they haven't changed that stupid on the turn signal setup from the mid 70's. There is enough buttons on the stearing wheel, couldn't they have programmed a couple to cover cruise?


Each to their own, I am just amazed at how far these trucks have gone in the last 10 years.

Alot of people that move into to the Ghetto after 4 months will even say ,Hey this aint so bad .....


It's called self justification ....


Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif








ZACKTLY!

hoot, I had about the exact same dodge as you have and I think the interior stinks but its your truck so you are the one who has to like it.Your tranny will hold seeing as you probably don't hot rod, you don't race or pull and I am not sure ya pull anything. I like you hoot, your always back your opinoins but I am still not buying it,......http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

I like you hoot, your always back your opinoins but I am still not buying it,......http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

I'm not selling anything.

I'm not buying GM diesels until they can prove to make a reliable one. Doesn't do any good to have a great tranny. I would rather upgrade my 48RE than by an 04 and still look at the constant posts about failing injectors.

Dodge makes a truck worth driving and I'm driving one. You guys can beat me to death about Dodges but that doesn't change the fact that I'm happier then I ever was while worring about my old Dmax.

So I'm not putting down the Dmax... you guys keep takung shots at my Dodge though. Must be bothering some of you. If so ... don't worry about me... keep an eye on your own truck.... good luck too all http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif Edited by: hoot

How does GM not make a reliable diesel? GM has as many problems as Dodge, trust me the are equals. At least they are ahead of those furds. It will not be long though before ford gets it straight. You are happy driving your dodge and that is what counts my man!!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

HOOT


That's it I'm calling the hypocrite card ...


Who about the one that wouldn't get across the street ??


How about the Brazilian blocks ??


How about the KDP ??


How long has the Cummings B been tweaked to fit the application ??


Why did the wait so long to go HPCR when it's been used in Europe ??


Gonna get worse before it gets better ...May have to start some copy paste ...I guess it's easy when you sit back for 10 years and then decide to jump tents ....


Lotta Ugly laying out there ,I guess your Diesel born again born again !!!





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gifEdited by: Mackin

MAC.. Copy and paste away. I can laugh at myself along with you.

I'm tired of being one brand rules anymore. I simply think Dodge NOW has a competitive offering.

Hypocryte...? ME? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Just be careful not to lay brand bashing fun over real world experience. I'm gettin some real world experience with this Dodge. Had 12 years of it with GM and am just sick of thier repeats. I don't care if people don't like what I'm driving. Lots of people didn't like my GM's. As far as I'm concerned what you drive and I drive should not come between any of us. Problem is some are super sensitive about thier brand choices. Now I'm just having fun trying them out.

"I'm not buying GM diesels until they can prove to make a reliable one. Doesn't do any good to have a great tranny. I would rather upgrade my 48RE than by an 04 and still look at the constant posts about failing injectors."

What kind of problems did you have with your duramax when you owned it? Isuzu has proven themselves very well to make reliable engines, including the duramax...But with that being said what does it really mean, International had proven to be reliable with the 7.3 but look at what happened when they released the 6.0.

"I'm not buying GM diesels until they can prove to make a reliable one. Doesn't do any good to have a great tranny. I would rather upgrade my 48RE than by an 04 and still look at the constant posts about failing injectors."

What kind of problems did you have with your duramax when you owned it? Isuzu has proven themselves very well to make reliable engines, including the duramax...But with that being said what does it really mean, International had proven to be reliable with the 7.3 but look at what happened when they released the 6.0.

I blew a head gasket but was running lp and Juice 90hp. Musta been too much for the gasket. At 72,000 miles I figured it was a good time to unload since all my injectors were still good and that is close to quittin time for them. If it wasn't for the continuing injector failure with the 03 and 04 Dmaxes I might have traded into a new one. And screw that new turbo. But since GM and Isuzu and Bosch feel it's fine the way it is just make them easier to replace, I figured it was time to do some brand damage and go with a Dodge. Has the same injection system so what the heck... I'm in no better or worse situation but I am driving a brand new truck. If it breaks I'll let you know.

Mac... I'd love to see your reciepts with only what 40,000 miles? You gotta long way to go. Trade it while you can get a decent truck... I mean buck http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Shocked.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif

They (Dodge)just released the POWER WAGON.....

"The new 2005 Dodge Ram Power Wagon lives up to its name," said Mike Donoughe, Vice President—Body-on-Frame Product Team. "Dodge Power Wagon doesn't just beat the competition, it decimates them. There is simply no other pickup on the market that can touch the Dodge Ram Power Wagon's off-road prowess."

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Shocked.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Shocked.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Advertising is hilarious

Gotta get me them Power Wagon emblems


"I delivered a new Duramax engine to a GM dealer in Colorado Springs today. I asked the parts manager why the original engine took a powder. He said that the block had a casting flaw(where have I heard this before). I asked him what was the most common problem that they where running across. He told me that the injectors where becoming noisy. He said they where replacing them by the bushel basket full. In fact he said that he received a bulletin from GM yesterday that authorized the dealer to replace all 8 injectors in any engine with under 200,000 miles under full warranty. He mentioned that the injector price was $3300.00. I don't know if that included labor."

From here (http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45939)Edited by: hoot

Why worry about injectors? Gm came to the table with a 200,000mile warranty on injectors. That's pretty darn good in my books. The injectors are the ONLY thing I would worry about in my truck. Will dodge come to the table with a 200,000 mile transmission warranty? http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif As long as you sleep good at night, Hoot. I know I do. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Hoot, you think dodge's interior is nicer than a chevy? Come on now Bud.


http://dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/4_gauges.jpg





Not trying to be a smart ass but that interior looks like it was made out of ground up tooth brushes. To each his own I guess. One of things that seems to be common on DC cars and trucks is that they don't seem to understand how to keep things attached, especially things that snap in place. Many people I know that have had DC products have the same complaint.

DC is saving money. They just use mini van dashes in their trucks, almost as pretty as the Chevy front end.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

NEVR L8,

I have parts falling off the interior of my '94 Full Size Blazer. Seatbelt retractor covers keep falling off. I would agree years gone by Chrysler had some elcheapo interiors. One part that does look like it won't stand the test of time is the drop down cupholder. It uses a geared mechanism to slowly lower it and some sort of hokey internal latch to hold it closed. Doesn't always latch and it's brand new. But hey... certainly not going to keep me from buying the truck.

The Dodge truck has a lot of good stuff that way overpowers the negatives. Like you guys keep bringing up and I agree... the auto trans isn't great. I knew that when I bought it. It's supposed to be beefed up more than previous years. Many have had success before so hopefully I'll have the same.

The Cummins dragster at Muncie was running a 2 speed Powerglide. The guy said once worked up they were unbelievably strong transmissions and I hear the torqueflight can be built up pretty well too. I just don't have those anticipated high power, tranny busting episodes in my future so I'm not to worried about it.

Rather worry about a tranny swap than having an LLY that might fill the crankcase and blow the turbo. I have no CAT and no EGR from the factory. AAM solid axles front and rear. All gear torsen anti-spin in the rear... no clutches in it and no additive required. Great 4 wheel disc brake system that was recently enlarged. Significantly tighter turning radius is a biggy. I don't know about you guys but parking the crew cabs in todays parking lot is a bear. I was surprised the front straight axle gave me better turning radius. I also believe the SFA does a better job of handling the big tires. Dodge has me rethinking that you can do a pretty darn good job with ride and handling with a straight front axle. Ford still has work to do though. I drove a few and they just don't come close to the Dodge in steering precision and tightness. That's no exageration... this front end is tight. 6000 miles and no unusual wear in the tires.

I'm sure that's not all and if you have noticed in all of my rant... I don't even mention the engine.

As long as you guys keep pounding on my truck... I'll keep telling you what I truthfully see in it... good and bad.

Did I mention it sits up nice and high... to the point where people ask me what lift I have? The 35" tires really make it sit up nice.

I liked my GMC and at times loved it. But it was begininng to feel like a liability as the odo got closer to 100,000.Edited by: hoot

Your a funny guy Hoot


What does all that matter when you are going to only commute and trade at 80K ??


How come you can't or wont address all the early growing pains of the Cummings B and Chrysler like you rant about NOW the Duramax (GM) issues that is 4 years young ??


Have you bought a spare lift pump yet ?? Your gonna need it ...


I'll be waiting





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

I don't own an older model... my experience... the little I have including observations is with thelatest and greatest. I hear what you're saying Mac.... maybe 15 years down the road the Dmax might become dependable http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Shocked.gif Give it a chance.. I hear you.

Lift pump? Who cares. No showstopper.

Little arogent for a Band Wagon jumper ....


I see where Duke and Bart are coming from at this point ...


Answer the questions about the B history in the early years before you can Goat about the Self proclaimed Polished turd you comute in ...


You could have saficed your requirments with a Mazda ...





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

Dodge....German owned, Mexican built.


There is no way to compare a quad cab dodge to a crew cab chevy/gmc. The back seat in the Dodge is way to small and uncomfortable. I know because I spent over 3k in the back of one on a road trip. I have an extended cab and my rear seat is more comfortable than the dodge.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~avatars/blank.gif~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think it is like Mackin pointed out earlier. Self Justification.


Small back seet
Weak Tranny
Cheap interior
Lift pump ???
drive shaft vibration



Oh yeah, I forgot, none of those are 'show stoppers'http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

Oh hoot, that lift pump will stop your show quicker than you think.No fuel equals no go.

It's called fuel starvation,poor lubriticity,poor design on a proven road hog,so he says with no experience ....


No matter he'll run like a LIL girl to Ford once he reaches 80K .... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Hoot, I have 2 dodges that are on the road every day hauling trailers loaded with landscape supplies and they are the most economical trucks that I've ever owned, interiors are secondary to the performance unless it is a personal vehicle and you have some physical requirements that one meets better than another, I bought the dmax allison because it was quieter than the dodge, the seat fit my lil but better than the dodge and it was available NOW - the fleet took my truck away from sooner than I really wanted to let it go - the dodges are a good truck, the only one i don't like is the ford - their brakes are not quality and that is being nice. All diesels can pull a big load but stopping is the issue, no matter how much the trailer holds back with its breaks there is the need for good truck brakes - ford stinks, very weak

and thats my $.02

****************************
Per Hoot:
"Doesn't do any good to have a great tranny. I would rather upgrade my 48RE than by an 04 and still look at the constant posts about failing injectors."
****************************

If you want a truck with an automatic transmission, seems preference has to be given to the Duramax/Allision.

Hoot, after someone spends a couple of thousand or more dollars to bullet proof the Dodge transmission, don't they still have a four speed, vs the five gears found in the Allision? If so, I think that is a big reason to go buy a truck with an Allision, (and that is not factoring in the significant cost to do a transmission upgrade on the Dodge).

Dodge is NOT german owned - Daimler/Chrysler is a fusion, joint venture so to speak and Daimler has the (little) bigger share of the two. The Dodge, Ford (and also the Chevy) are not build to german standards - otherwise none of us could probably afford them... look how much an American made BMW SUV costs (they don't give any rebates...)
Mexican build means not automatically bad, my Avalanche runs like a charm, surely better built than many other Chevy products I have driven (GMC Safari, Chevy Venture...) which were not build in Mexico!
That said I have decided against the Dodge mainly because of poor workmanship, less cylinders, less gears, less features, less comfort, less space....the list goes on (not to mention VERY POOR RESALE VALUE - WHY IS THAT SO???) - so why the hell should I pay the same money to get less?
I like the front end of the Dodge really a lot, it looks cool. I always wanted one before I ever came to this country, but after seeing it, driving it...no thanks! I always look for good value and durability - whatever I buy, may it expensive or cheap. The Dodge (and also the F250) are blinding by design - but they DO NOT present good value for my hard earned money!

MAC...

I always thought you Duke and BART were backdoor buddies. You don't get it do you? Who cares about last year or 5 years ago B series whatever. I'm only commmenting on my truck (2004 Dodge) and the time bomb I unloaded.

I'm just spewing what I know and believe, right or wrong. If I feel like spilling my thoughts on what GM has or hasn't, I would expect you to friggin agree with me once in a while.... but NO... GM and Dmaxes are perfect in your blind eyes. What good is the Allison if you can't trust the fuel system in the engine. It may last without injectors till 100,000 miles but most likely will not.

Bottom line.... Dodge makes a good truck. GM is into it's fourth model year with the Dmax and it's no better off then the first year. Anybody that buys one is gambling big time if they plan on keeping it to 100,000 miles or more. PLAIN SIMPLE FACT.... Now call me what you want for speaking the simple truth. But than Broker has it all covered, right? You regularly see Dodges with many hundreds of thousands of miles. They are great engines. I'm not saying Cummins rules.... I'm just saying Dodge makes a good truck..... swallow it

mahalkita,

You must not have much experience with a Dodge.. especially the latest. Your perception of value for the money is a little skewed. Resale of most diesel equipped 4x4's is excellent and you'd be hard pressed to find a great deal on a used Cummins Dodge. They are few and far between and usually command a higher than average price if not abused. I totally disagree with you about workmanship. My truck as practically flawless and so far looks to be as good as or better than the others. Less features? What might those be? Less comfort... no way in the front. Back seat is a tighter and less comfortable but in the front it's more comfortable than the GMC I had. Less cylinders? yep... It's a totally different animal. I like it. Less gears... I agree they could use an upgrade on the trans. Less space.... only for sitting rear passengers. When using the rear area with the fold flat floor system it's got tons of cargo room in the back. The turning radius... I keep mentioning... is significantly better and makes everyday driving quite a bit more enjoyable if you do a lot of tight parking.

Pepper.... thanks for jumping in with your real experiences good or bad.



I love SFA http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

If GM fixed.... instead of repaired the injector issue they would be onto something but nooooo.... another diesel from GM with a stigma.Edited by: hoot

I think I do get it Hoot


When you give me something to agree on I will ....


You have jumped on board a Dodge 10+ years later .... Many many complaints "buyers" have had with the B and the "R E's in the "beginning" the first 4 years that bailed ...?? Does that say Dodge is a bad truck,today ?? Did Dodge extend warranties for those suffering soles on the KDP of failed injector Pumps whether it be lift or otherwise ?? How about casting #53 ?? How about the 47re's taking untimely dumpers ??


Even GM extended the warranty on the 6.5 lift pumps when they were in the bottom Diesel market share ....


What is the failure rate on Bosch's HPCR injector in the Duramax ??The ratio is less them 1 in what 10000 units 1000 units sold .... Like you have pointed out all the Big 3 have problems ....GM stepped up ....Dodge ? Nope .... Drivetrain vibration ?? Remove muffler ,fix ???


If your baseing your Opinion on actual experiences then your Max may have never had a problem other then what you may have done to your own truck like many of us ...


You propan'd your truck very early on in ownership did it cause your demise ?? You had no injector problems ,why are you complaining ??Head gasket ,gimmie a break ... What does Propane do to Diesel Engines ?? In crease Timing therefore ?? Then you Juiced it ...


Now you cry poor product .... http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


The "knock" you experienced could been directly referenced to one your Mods and or the repair you had done,can't deny it ...


You should have No complaints or warnings ....


The New Variable Vane turbo you claim to watch out for .... How many wash out failures can you report on in a Duramax ??


So HOOT my friend you don't get it ,I got it ...The best Tranny Motor ,truck on the market today IMO ....


Really it doesn't matter cause you'll never use your truck for what it was intended but haul a tank of AIR around ... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


I don't back door nuttin ...Thought you liked a good debate ??


Don't be going postal on me you seemed frazzled,so say you ....Enjoy your truck Hoot ,talk your truck up ,don't diss the Duramax ,I'm watching ....


Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif

Who's this Broker clown you mention ??





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

Hoot,
I own a Dodge RAM (non Cummins) and wanted to trade that in buying a new Duramax - this truck is unsellable, nobody want's it for a reasonable price, so I am forced to keep it for my kids...I know thats comparing apples to pears, but still a Dodge remains a Dodge (Chrysler product).
The best feature I have in a Chevy (not in a Dodge): 2 keys, one for my wife (5.3 short) and one for me (6.8 tall). Everything is programmed into that key - she uses hers the seat moves forward, the mirrors tilt, the A/C has her temp setting, the radio plays her station...With my key everything changes automatically to my settings - thats comfort and very nice to have if you changing drivers all the time...Then there is auto A/C, XM radio, Onstar (they open your truck via satellite if your locked your keys inside...) I know NOBODY really needs those features but they are nice to have. My familiy will NOT FIT onto the rear seats in a Dodge. Quality: Check out the HARD plastic parts used, they are not smooth - I am talking about the feel of the surface (haptic). I you have driven a BMW or AUDI or Mercedes...you get the feeling, its looks just nicer put together and it does feel nicer. The GM products are nicer put together than Chrysler and they use nicer materials at least in the trucks. This may be different for the SUVs or passenger cars. There is no evident influence of Daimler in the trucks, the SUVs like the new 2005 Jeep is a different story (still I don't like the Jeep because it becomes wimpy...a move in the wrong direction IMHO).
Anyway your truck is surely nice but the wrong one for me

Hoot...you dug yourself a hole here. The dodge fuel system, especially with the hpcr is very suspect. They didn't do their homework there. You sound more ridiculous as this thing goes on. Your head gasket issue was your fault most likely... you play you pay which ever brand you choose. Can't use the head gasket as an issue so lets hear something else.

Oh by the way... dodge higher than average re-sale, try again hoot. Chevys blow them away on re-sale. Keep in mind I am not bashing dodge and cummins. I will own another cummins...it will be a twelve valve for sled pulling .... the 24v has had lots more issues than you are aware of but in time you will know all about it.

Here's the way I see it HOOT has jumped on the BIG CUMMINS for it's


Longevity => He never keeps anything ... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif


Reliability ,high miles => He trades at 80,000 and will never rack up the miles like a Cummins was so called designed .... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


Low end grunt for towing => Hauls a airtank .... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif


So Hoot what's that you say a time bomb ?? http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ouch.gif


No problem buddy just keeping ya honest nothing personal ...


Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

HOOT





Take your Dodge (ball) and go home to pout ??





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

Sorry... I was busy all day and not near a computer.

I'm pretty much out of steam when it comes to specifics. I drove three GM diesels over the last 12 years.

I like this one the best. I did my homework. I'm done with GM diesels for a long time. I like all you guys personally so don't let my diesel preference come between us.

GM makes a nice truck.
Dodge makes a nice truck.
Ford makes a nice truck.

Right now... this instant... Dodge is putting out one heck of a decent diesel 4x4. I didn't start this topic. I just step in when they need some enlightenment. I know a few Dodge owners and every time I run into 3rd gen owners they love thier trucks. Sound familiar? Tody a guy had one with 40,000 miles working every day.. doesn't have time to mess with it and ain't had a problem. captainmal runs into many 3rd gen owners with much higher miles and notta problem.

There were probably 1000 Dodge diesel trucks at Muncie and a few Ford and GMs. Lots of stupid owners.
I'm stupid too.

Bashaway. Edited by: hoot

Hoot, again you make no sense..whatever. By the way...nobody said you where stupid.

Hoot we will miss your "how to" and "look at this" posts on the new LLY. Some of us will enjoy your Dodge postings. I would really like to see how the new block, head and injection system gel. I'm waiting for you to post something about mating an Allison 1,000 to a 5.9 motor.. you know, a "how to" section.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Tongue.gif





Burner---------------> http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

I've been enjoying the exchange between Hoot, Mac and company, but I thought I would sidetrack back to the original post that was questioning whether the Dodge or Chevy was "cheaper".

I was wondering about that also (in regard to price rather than "cheaper" built). I did the following price comparison between a Chevy LS and a Dodge SLT. These models both have a cloth interior and appear to be the most popular choice for value in a non work truck configuration. I tried to keep the options to a minimum so the trucks would be as comparable as possible. (I am not as familiar with the Dodge, but hopefully this is close enough.)

It is difficult to directly compare the Dodge Quad Cab to the Chevy because the reat seating room falls between the Chevy Extended cab the Chevy Crew cab. So, I compared the Dodge to both of the Chevy models.

(Hope the columns still line up after I paste this. Prices can be confirmed on Kelly Blue Book, KBB.COM).

Dodge 2500 Quad Cab, SLT, 4WD, Short Bed:
Dlr Inv MSRP
Base Price 27,930 31,715
Cummins HO Diesel 4,805 5,460
Auto 4 Speed Trans. 964 1,095
Protection Package 84 95
- Tow Hooks
- Skid Plates
Trailer Package 242 275
Limited Slip Axle 251 285
Cloth 6-way Driver Seat 400 455
Steering Wheel Controls 66 75
Items std on the Chevy LS
- Security, Theft Deterrent 198 225
- Rear Window Defroster 185 210
- Auto Dim Rearview Mirror 44 50
- Body Side Moldings 66 75
- Leather Steering Wheel 40 45
Shipping 850 850

Dealer Invoice/MSRP 36,125 40,910

Chevy 2500HD Ext. Cab, LS, 4WD, Short Bed:

Base Price 28,263 32,300
Power Package-Net 5,934 6,900
- Duramax LLY Engine
- Allison 5 Speed Auto
- Limited Slip Axle
Trailer Equip. Package 181 210
6 Way Power Driver Seat 206 240
Skid Plates 82 95
Steering Wheel Controls 108 125
Shipping 850 850

Time bomb...... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

I didn't even compare costs when I traded. Thanks for the numbers. Looks like GM is "cheaper" after rebates http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Seriously... I paid $4000 less for this truck than I did for my GMC in 2001. No GM rebates then.

Edited by: hoot

I realize that I just got my DMAX so I can't speak to longevity or problems, so far so good.

I had a 04.5 Dodge on order, six speed due to the garbage Dodge tranny. Before it got here we and looked at a Chevy on my wifes erging.

No comparison of in the interiors. Chevy much more confortable with the big front bucket seats, Dodge seats are much smaller and alot harder. Much bigger back seat in the chevy. Very important for our daughter and the amount of traveling that we do. Here are the cab numbers compared top the 01 Dodge I had: 04 Dodge 9" longer, 04 Chevy 15" longer.

Chevy cab looks and feels better (ergonomically), lots more gadgets and toys http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

Not gonna bash the Dodge, but I think I made a good decision

Just my opinion, very happy so far http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

I appreciate the input and honesty Hoot. I am not a die hard brand loyal customer either. I owned a Ford before the Dmax and got rid of it because of problems. If this one gives me problems I'll get rid of it. End of story. So far so good.

I think what's most important when making a brand decision is to be open minded, do lot's of research and give them all a chance. Everybody places certain things at different priority levels.

Some place interior over exterior and vice-versa.

Some could care less about what something looks like while others buy junk that looks good.

Some people's opinions and perceptions of quality and necessity are drastically different than other's.

Here's something of the way I think.

1) Engine durability and dependability including engine noise (diesel clatter) and power.

2) Transmission durability and dependability

3) Frame and suspension design... drivability, turning radius.

4) Body style and quality as well as availability of a crew cab.

5) Interior quality and thoughtfullness

So as you can see, even though I think my Dodge has an excellently designed and made interior, comments by others who don't like it mean nothing to me because first, I like it and second... it's real low in my priorites. XM radio, dual heating and a/c or Onstar don't even lift my needle. I also placed all other aspects as a whole, over the prospect of transmission failure since this is a beefed up version for the 600, mine being a 555 and the warranty is the best in the business.

If Dodge did have a full rear crew... I think they would be outselling GM diesels.

Edited by: hoot

Hoot, do you think the one piece hydra formed frame is good or bad? I spoke with my uncle (you know) and he sometimes needs to pick one up and swing it around. He does this with a hook and a spreadder at one end. They grabb it with the crane and just swing it like a sideways plumb-bob. He says it doesn't hurt it ....but I'm not sure. His trucks are laiden with about 10k worth of bed and welding equipment. What would happen if the frame got "kinked" just a little? Is it possible to strighten them out? If that isn't possible, could you weld hydra-formed steel back together?


Just wanted your take on that.





Burner-------------> http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Hoot, do you think the one piece hydra formed frame is good or bad? I spoke with my uncle (you know) and he sometimes needs to pick one up and swing it around. He does this with a hook and a spreadder at one end. They grabb it with the crane and just swing it like a sideways plumb-bob. He says it doesn't hurt it ....but I'm not sure. His trucks are laiden with about 10k worth of bed and welding equipment. What would happen if the frame got "kinked" just a little? Is it possible to strighten them out? If that isn't possible, could you weld hydra-formed steel back together?


Just wanted your take on that.





Burner-------------> http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif





you should try to clear that up a little. to me it sounds like he picks his trucks up with cranes and swings them around!

He does pick them up and swing them around. However, one end of the truck is still on the ground. They get into tight places and sometimes get stuck. I have no idea how many times he has done this.

hoot,Ive been driving GMs for 30 years,Ive been a gm tech for 27 years,I have a 2004.5 dmax,which I love,but a friend of mine has a 98 Dodge dually with a cummins and 140,000 miles on it.He pulls a bulldozer and a frt end loader all over East TEXAS,having rode and driven this 4x4 monster,It would definitly be a consideration if I did not work at a GMC dealership.This big truck rides good,has excellent accelleration and great fuel mileage.My point is,dont let all these dmax owners get to you,like I said I love My GMC,but the dodge is nothing to laugh at either--Hang in there,there aint nothing wrong with your truck

I don't know.... I'm really concerned now that if I swing it around I might get into big problems. Never thought about what would happen if I did that. I have a Miller 135 mig... think it'll be enough? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Burner... I can't answer that question. I don't know the repair procedures for a fully hydroformed frame or the partially hydroformed one on the GM HD's.

I understand that to make the frame they use a tube, stick it in a form and blast major pressure into it to form the tube into the shape. We did the same type of forming at Boeing using what's called a hydroform press. It was a huge cylindrical machine that consisted of a gigantic hydraulic pump, and internal rubber bladder that hung above and a roll out table to sit your form blocks loaded with flat sheet metal on top of the blocks. You push a button, the table rolls in, the hydraulics kick in, the door opens, out comes the tools with the sheet metal pressed over the form tools. The magic of hydraulic pressure and rubber.

I don't know if the frames are made of a material that resists repair or is weakened to the point of non-repairability but you'd be surprised at what industry comes up with when $$ is at stake. If they can't straighten it they replace the thing wholly or in pieces I'll bet. If not.. it wouldn't be the first truck with it's entire frame replaced. I know an older fellow that had his F150 frame replaced after running over a culvert.

tmartin.... we know http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif Edited by: hoot

I guess it'll be just like poping a frame rivit, no replair...... only frame replacement.

Hoot...unless I am missing something here ,at least in the 04.5 chevys vs. my old 03 dodge, the turning radius in the chevy is much much better. I am confused!?

Hoot...unless I am missing something here ,at least in the 04.5 chevys vs. my old 03 dodge, the turning radius in the chevy is much much better. I am confused!?

Between my 01 CC SB GMC and my 04 CC SB Dodge, there is no doubt. The Dodge turns tighter. That really surprised me cause I always assumed straight axles were worse.

You need to take a spin in a new chevy. The dodge you have was identical to my old one.....and its not even remotely close Hoot.

You need to take a spin in a new chevy. The dodge you have was identical to my old one.....and its not even remotely close Hoot.

New Chevy is the same as the 2001 I had. You must have Quadrasteer http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

I just did a vehicle comparison on the GM website. BTW they revamped it and it really works slick.

GM 2500HD Crew Cab Short Bed 4x4 turning radius 50
Dodge 2500 Quad Cab Short Bed 4x4 turning radius 49

Not a big difference technically but trust me, I don't make up chit and there is no doubt my Dodge spins in the parking lot a whole lot better than the GMC did.Edited by: hoot

I didn't really want to chime in here because I'm a member on other forums but do read things here from time to time.

I just bought a Dodge after months of research. I nearly bought a Chevy and owned Toyotas before. I chose the Dodge for the Cummins motor. I don't care about the cosmetic things. The motor IS the most important part of the vehicle for me. I honestly cannot believe that some of you guys are bashing the Cummins motor in favor of the duramax. Am I dreaming? I'm not really saying the lly is a bad motor, because I don't think it has been out long enough to be proven, but to say it is better than a CTD is purely crazy..

My main point is that diehard brand loyalty is the sign of a narrow mind. If a vehicle meets someones needs then let it be. Obviously if you can afford one, you can afford the other and you bought what works for you.
Vehicles change, not one brand has had the best in class everything since the first one ever made rolled off the line.

Like I said, I hang out on the dodge forums for the obvious reason. The thing is there that bashing other brands is extremely rare. People seem to be secure w/ their trucks and don't feel the need belittle others to make themselves feel better. They say that people hate what they fear.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif I question a mans reasoning when he attacks another because they have an opinion about something, especially when that person has justification. If you tell someone that what they have sucks, and you don't have any proof or experience and just your opinion, well....

coolslice....

Ouch.. you hit some sensitive spots there. My history is laden with brand loyal bashing.

I've been down the road of deeply criticizing other brands, mostly in war room type venues.

Now that I've confessed...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

That was very well written and true as ever. I said the same thing about brand loyalty recently in another post where the fellow said he doesn't know how he could "get himself" to buy a Dodge. I went from feeling that way for the like 15 years but in the last 5 or so I began wondering what life would be like in a Ford or Dodge. Pretty sad. There are people out there that could care less GM, Ford, Dodge. They have zero brand loyalty and buy what looks to be the right fit for them. It's when you become an enthusiast that the brand loyalty sets in big time and that's really what we are seeing here. Some people get onto these sites and can't believe what they read, how people are so nuts about what (we) drive. For many of us it's a second life....i.e. major hobby.

The recent new developments and model changes have really brought all three brands in close competition. None has the perfect combination but Ford comes so close. Their quality and drivability issues really derailed a chance for them to hold or gain the original 70% diesel they had. You don't like to see a brand lose market share over blundering. They have the truck.... big cab 4 doors, they have what seems to be an excellent new 5-speed auto, they have solid axles and sit well. Commercial loves them for construction.

I noticed this year GM HDs showing up everywhere though. They seem to be really making a difference in the commercial segment, gas and diesel. I've been seeing med duty GMs now daily, ambulances (2) recently, landscape and construction companies where typically you only saw SuperDuties. I'm also wondering if GMs lower step in height is actually a factor in their purchasing decisions. Could be a plus for workers, some getting older, climbing in and out all day. Loading also is easier.

Dodge.... the lack of the heavier truck and the full crew cab may be a big factor. Dodge is limiting itself as GM did. Rumours are Dodge is coming out with some bigger stuff. If they're smart.

Love my truck, loved my GMC when I had it. Never owned a Ford with a diesel. I've grown up and see good now in all the brands instead of the bad. Mostly because you can't win. Each brand has it's negative. I chose Dodge this time cause the biggest negative IMHO is the automatic and there are enough guys around here with the great Allison having major work done.

coolslice..... welcome. Is this your user name on the other sites?Edited by: hoot

Hoot, thanks for the nod. I'm not trying to step on anyones toes, but I just hate to see people so wrapped up in something that they are not willing to give anything else a chance. I was diehard Toyota, but like you said things can get a bit dull and some fell the need to make a change. Hell, I HATED Dodge my entire life, I like to refer to my truck as a "cummins" ram.

For the record, I drive for a living and am on the road all day. My take on the demograpics of the diesel market are as follows.

Chevy- Tends to be driven by the well to do person who needs a nice truck, but will never use it for anything other than light duty work. I often see women pulling a small horse trailer or something. Chevy knows this as evident by the IFS, small size, and car like interior. It is the light duty diesel of the bunch IMO. My reason for not buying a chevy was the price, and few are out there to choose from. I would be curious to see how many duramax's are built compared to the other big 2. The ext cab seemed a bit too small and the crew was too big.

Ford- Mostly people who work their truck hard, but still want it to be able to clean up nice. They want to fit in a the stock yard as well as the cpuntry club. Everyone I know that has one swears by it. I personally didn't buy one because of the horror stories that are showing up about the 6.0, plus I didn't want a new truck that was basically unchanged since 1999.

Dodge- Most people buy the dodge for the motor as I did IMO. Around here, if you see a diesel pulling a huge load, its usually a dodge. They also seem to be a big hit with younger guys, mainly because of the size and the fact that you can make one sound just like a semi which is good if your a high school redneck trying to get noticed. Althought I would put my trucks interior features up against any other truck, thats not why I bought it. It just fits me. Plus the fact that my best friend and several riding buddies work at the dealership which has HUGE advantages.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif Lets just say that the sevice after the sale is great and very, very cheap.

Thats just my opinion about the big three, and I would be proud to own any of them.

With all the front end issues I have had, I would consider live axles in my next ruck!

With all the front end issues I have had, I would consider live axles in my next ruck!

It's not like SFA are trouble free. There are some premature balljoint wear issues surfacing on the Dodges but it doesn't seem to be widespread. The BJ's are permanantly lubricated so I bought a hypodermic grease tip and grease them anyway. Some anti-Dodge guys speak of the "Death Wobble". Two things.... Dodge uses an entirely different front axle now (AAM -vs- Dana) since those days and any talk of it with the III GEN trucks is almost non-existant.

Hoot, I agree with you that the dodge is a good truck - i have 2 and they are great, also have 2 d/a's, and they are great - BUT!!! Why do you even buy a diesel if you are going to trade it in before it is really broken in well?????
A diesel is meant to work, you aren't working yours I don't think, if so please let us know. I got the gmc because it looked a lot better TO ME than the others and the seat fit me better than the others, I drive about 40k-50k a year so the seat sold me - otherwise I'd be in a cummins. So much BS here about this an that - if it will haul today it's ok!

Gotta give you credit Hoot for sticking your neck out here to get those ropes thrown around it. Are you just baiting these guys?

Coolslice - I agree with all but the gm part, the 4500 is not a richmans toy - just a good truck, turning radius is so much better than the competition - big factor for us

Hoot, I agree with you that the dodge is a good truck - i have 2 and they are great, also have 2 d/a's, and they are great - BUT!!! Why do you even buy a diesel if you are going to trade it in before it is really broken in well?????

Diesels are cool and broken in well for a Dodge you're correct... for a Dmax 100,000 miles is asking for it.


A diesel is meant to work, you aren't working yours I don't think, if so please let us know. I got the gmc because it looked a lot better TO ME than the others and the seat fit me better than the others, I drive about 40k-50k a year so the seat sold me - otherwise I'd be in a cummins. So much BS here about this an that - if it will haul today it's ok!

Lots of guys on here consider drag racing and sled pulling, work. No I do not work mine.... I have fun with it and it provides first class transportation. If I bought based on how the seat felt I'd be driving a Craftmaster Adjustable Bed.


Gotta give you credit Hoot for sticking your neck out here to get those ropes thrown around it. Are you just baiting these guys?

They know they need to be careful because I had what they drive for three years. The only reason you can call it "sticking your neck out here to get those ropes thrown around it" is because this is a predominantly Duramax site. I think they need to open up a bit more and give fair topic space to all three. Give up the snobbish preference because GM isn't better than Ford or Dodge. They are just the same only different http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

After reading all the posts I had to add my two cents. I have never been a die hard anything fan and will drive whatever is reliable. Keeping this in mind I traded my old 93 Chevy 6.5 off on a new 2001 Dodge ram Quad cab HO Cummins with a 6spd. Thought I had the world by the tail. Boy was I wrong. My mileage on the Dodge was about 15-17mpg empty on the highway.. I was used to 18-22mpg for the same type miles. Power was a little more with the Dodge but not much. Reliablity went out the window. The Dodge was the worst vehicle I have ever owned in my 36 years of driving experience,bar none. In the 32,000 miles I owned it I had to get it towed to the dealer 3 times, it was undriveable, had it in 24 other times and when I turned it over to the dealer when picking up my 04 D-Max it could have used 3 more maintainance fixes. I had the genuine lemon, the problems ranged from drivetrain problems, to chassis problems, to cab problems, to dealer problems, I pretty much had it all. Now I'm still not a die hard anything fan except I will never own another Dodge product. So far I love my D-max. way more power than the Cummins, better mileage better driveability, better ride and much quieter

Well I might as well chime in with my .02,

Last Thursday I traded my 95 6.5 diesel for a GMC SLE with the LLY and Allison. My 6.5 I purchased new and it had 82K on it. I drive 50% pavement and 50% dirt 4X4 in the course of a year and the 6.5 had 4 issues during the time I owned it. 1) alternator at 20K (replaced under warranty) 2) fuel pump (replaced under warranty at 42K and was given a 12 year warranty on the replacement) 3) windshield wiper motherboard (replaced under warranty/recall at 80K) 4) fuel pump black box (replaced under warranty at 81K). It was a 5-speed manual and when I traded it still had 10K left on the brakes and the clutch felt fine. It did have one annoying issue, once a day it would hiccup. What I mean is, once a day it would feel as the fuel shut off momentarily (felt like a bump in the road) and then it would be fine the rest of the day. It did not do it a certain time of day and it did not matter if the engine was hot/cold or if I was on a secondary street/freeway/dirt road. But it did it once a day, every day (strange).

I buy on average 30-60 Ford Super Duty’s a year and turn them into fire trucks. Additionally, I buy 30-60 Internationals with the DT 444/VT 365 (what Ford uses as the Powerstroke). Keep in mind that Ford installs their own injectors, ecm, etc. We had a few problems with the 7.3’s but they were typically transmission and T-case failures. The only engine problems we really had with them is the Air Filter collapsing under severe dusty conditions and that was fixed with an aftermarket air cleaner assembly. The 6.0 Ford is another story (it’s a POS that even my Ford distributor that I use told me not to buy as a personal vehicle) but we have had no problems with the Internationals with the VT engine. I know International has taken the blame for Ford’s issues but I believe that as Ford is bigger than International, they are just pointing fingers and are able to make the blame stick.

Dodge, my dad bought a 2004 Diesel. Owned it 219 days, was in the shop for 137. They replaced the transmission at 83 miles, the first rear end at 171, and the second at 4K. The engine was replaced at 6K, the first ecm at 7K the second at 7.2K. Even after the transmission replacement, the stupid thing would downshift to second gear whenever it felt like it (no fun at 75 on the freeway). Needless to say, that truck was a danger to my dad and the people behind him and Dodge took it back under the State Le

After a 4000 mile trip to Montana and back I can say their are more GM Duramax's on the road pulling anything and everything than Ford and Dodge.

As far as the power the stock Duramax LLY still out pulls the stock Ford and Dodge, their is real world proof of that.

Dodges best interior is still not as nice as GM's. Ford's not bad. As far as comfort and handling GM has over the others by a long shot. You drive a Ford or Dodge and you guide the GM.

Allison over the Dodge any day of the week. Have not heard much about Ford's new trans, I know its way better than what they had before.

Before the Duramax I would half to say Dodge or Ford had the 6.5 beat many times over, but not any more. Wake up and smell the diesel.

Greg Edited by: LanduytG

Greg I agree... I too have been seeing tons of Dmax trucks... Also seeing a very fast growth of med duty GMs everywhere.

Had a 4500 with a Duramax/Allison pull the hill in Montana this past weekend. 12K up a 6% grade at 55 mph I think it was. He also weighed in about 4500 more thank a pickup. That truck was way cool.

Greg

I think I do get it Hoot


When you give me something to agree on I will ....


You have jumped on board a Dodge 10+ years later .... Many many complaints "buyers" have had with the B and the "R E's in the "beginning" the first 4 years that bailed ...?? Does that say Dodge is a bad truck,today ?? Did Dodge extend warranties for those suffering soles on the KDP of failed injector Pumps whether it be lift or otherwise ?? How about casting #53 ?? How about the 47re's taking untimely dumpers ??


Even GM extended the warranty on the 6.5 lift pumps when they were in the bottom Diesel market share ....


What is the failure rate on Bosch's HPCR injector in the Duramax ??The ratio is less them 1 in what 10000 units 1000 units sold .... Like you have pointed out all the Big 3 have problems ....GM stepped up ....Dodge ? Nope .... Drivetrain vibration ?? Remove muffler ,fix ???


If your baseing your Opinion on actual experiences then your Max may have never had a problem other then what you may have done to your own truck like many of us ...


You propan'd your truck very early on in ownership did it cause your demise ?? You had no injector problems ,why are you complaining ??Head gasket ,gimmie a break ... What does Propane do to Diesel Engines ?? In crease Timing therefore ?? Then you Juiced it ...


Now you cry poor product .... http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


The "knock" you experienced could been directly referenced to one your Mods and or the repair you had done,can't deny it ...


You should have No complaints or warnings ....


The New Variable Vane turbo you claim to watch out for .... How many wash out failures can you report on in a Duramax ??


So HOOT my friend you don't get it ,I got it ...The best Tranny Motor ,truck on the market today IMO ....


Really it doesn't matter cause you'll never use your truck for what it was intended but haul a tank of AIR around ... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


I don't back door nuttin ...Thought you liked a good debate ??


Don't be going postal on me you seemed frazzled,so say you ....Enjoy your truck Hoot ,talk your truck up ,don't diss the Duramax ,I'm watching ....


Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif


I know this is an old post, But I just had to step up here and post. Mac, I have often wondered if you were on prozachttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif, But man you are 100% correct on this one. Very good post. Maybe the best one from anyone that I have read in a very long time.<IMG onMouseOver="this.style.cursor='hand'" onMouseOut="this.style.cursor=''" alt='Click on image to open in new window' onClick="window.open('smileys/Clap.gif', 'Image', 'toolbar=0,location=0,status=0,menubar=0,scrollbar s=1,resizable=1');" id=

The Garret VNT turbo is not new by any means. Its been around for at least the last 5 years. Garrett is one of the best turbo's made and as long as you don't over speed it it will hold up just fine.

Greg

Between my 01 CC SB GMC and my 04 CC SB Dodge, there is no doubt. The Dodge turns tighter. That really surprised me cause I always assumed straight axles were worse. So now you have a crew cab Dodge?


I would hope a truck with a wheel base as much shorter as your crew cab Dodge has, that it would turn around shorter. Let us see here. the bed is 3 or 4 inches shorter, the cab is 6 or 8 inches shorter. I would guess the GM has a wheel base of 153" while the Dodge is at maybe 143"http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif I just looked it up, the Dodge Quadcab short box has a wheel base of 140.5"


And the turning radius is one whole foot longer for the GM. Whopty freaken do


Oh, a NEWS FLASH- your Dodge is an extended cab with conventional doors.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


It is amassing that it took hoot all of 3 and a half months to become brand loyal and blind. At least with the GM`s that he had, it took him 12 years to turn away from them, and that was due to the injector problem that he never had.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gifEdited by: hdmax

So Hoot, this is what you call thin......eh?

“Allison over the Dodge any day of the week. Have not heard much about Ford's new trans, I know its way better than what they had before.”

Before I purchased my GMC I went to lunch with my distributor who was driving a $50K “King Ranch”. Trans slipped so bad that we could barely get out of the parking lot and it would slip every time it shifted.

To be fair, I see a lot of trucks on a day to day basis and as I write this I am at a fleet show. Failure rates of 1 in a 1000 or 1 in 10000 are high considering that Ford purchases 100,000 VT engines at a shot.

My dad was a service manager for Buick/Cadillac before he became the fleet manager for his county. In the 60’s and early 70’s we never had the quantity of problems with new vehicles that we have today. When you purchased a new car you washed it, you drove it, you changed oil every 7,000 mile but other than that you did not think about it. We had a 56 Buick Special he purchased new and when he sold it and bought a 63 <st1:State><st1:place>Riviera</st1:place></st1:State>; it had over 150,000 on it. He put over 200,000 on the <st1:State><st1:place>Riviera</st1:place></st1:State>. He did have to rebuild the transmission in the <st1:State><st1:place>Riviera</st1:place></st1:State> once and he hated that transmission but I believe that it was better than some of the garbage out there today.

hdmax... judging by your last few posts I think you're the one on prozak.

I don't appreciate (take lightly) being labeled as blind brand loyal. Funny, I trade my GM in on a Dodge and somebody calls me brand loyal http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

I'm having a blast with this truck. It's not perfect and I didn't expect the GMC to be perfect. Look, I unloaded it at 72,000 miles after it being practically totalled by a tree, had the engine torn apart for headgaskets and then noticed a knock. Decided to try a Dodge since I always wanted a Cummins and like the SOLID FRONT AXLE http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

I haven't been bragging big time... just knocking down some of the BRAND LOYAL GM OWNER'S misconceptions about the third Gen Dodge.

I have one kid that sits in the back. It's not an extended cab with doors, it's bigger. I already checked. The shorter wheelbase makes for a tighter turning radius?? Great. I like it. It looks better being a little shorter too... especially now with the leveling kit installed. Do I wish it had a bigger and more comfortable rear seat? Most definately.

I'm not on this forum telling people not to by GM. I'm not necessarily putting down GM HD trucks. I'm not starting topics about how cheap or "are GM trucks cheap". Never said they were and always was honest about them and about this truck. I will state my opinion on specific things about the GM truck that I don't like. We can all agree the front end (steering/suspension) could use some help.

As far as reports of Dodge owners that have disaster issues.... take a look here, on this site, there are loads with GM disaster stories and we can pick and choose from each brand at will.

I'm at 8200 miles and no disaster stories so far. Trans is still like new http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif I never said my truck is better than a GMC but I said why I unloaded the GMC... with possibe injector failure as one of the reasons. I don't laugh about it as I lost money over it. My choice. Edited by: hoot

Mike (hoot) I have talked to hundreds of owners of the Cummins engine Dodge over the last 2-3 years. At truck pulls (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif ) job sites, filling stations, and the like. I have never heard one complain about the engine, Other then a fuel pump here and a low power there type complaint. But in large they complain about the truck, namely the front differential, steering, transmission. And most say they love the Cummins.


I remember meeting a young man (Well, not very young, but I said that because he is my agehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif ) at Muncie this 2004 year. He told me that he was running propane and the Juice programmer together trying to impress a friend, he also told me that he believed that the propane entered the engine as liquid. And that from that moment on he knew he had done something to the engine.


Just last night I went down to the stop (1/4 mile from here there is a 4 way stop with a sporting good store that sells fuel of every flavor) I talked to a guy that has 3 Cummins, one of them his puller. He was complaining about the transmission being out for the 4th time in the last 27,000 miles. I do not blame his problems on Dodge. I blame it on the 450 hp Cummins he has in it.


I bring that little story up to mention that many of the complaints come from guys/gals that do not run their truck stock, yet they will cut the truck down for something they caused.


I did my turbo in, just as you destroyed the head gasket on your GM. Regardless what caused it, it still hurtshttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif I know dozens of Cummins owners that has destroyed their head gaskets, many of them did it more then once. Yet they stick with their truck and do not bitch about it. (Un-like someone we both knowhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif ) Well some of them do!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif


I hope you have very good luck with your new truck. (Not reallyhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif ) If it last you for 77,000 miles with no problems other then what you contribute to, you should be happy.

hdmax..

I had a custom made lp tank with extra baffles and a cup over the vapor outlet tube. I can't prove what caused it. The only "event" that took place before it started pressurizing the coolant resivour was I ran the Juice on 90 and put the lp on at the same time. Took a hard run with a friend. After that it started spitting coolant.

Now if you look at the gasket it did not look like a sudden catastrophic failure. It was actually not plain as day where the leak was. Others that had headgaskets go had them go in the same places.... not running lp.

I think when I ran the two power adders at the same time I simply rushed the inevitable. I think my truck was gonna lose one sooner or later but I don't believe the DMax is prone to it. I had a bad one... Maverick had a bad one.. and I'm sure there are more.

It's not like I don't know about tranny issues with the Dodge. Do your buddies run the 48RE?

Steering is excellent and the front dif is no longer a Dana.

Cum on back

The trucks I were talking about are all older ones. You are the only Guy I've talked to that owns a new one. Most of my friends and guys I talk to are poor compared to youhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif. I would guess that the newest one other then yours would be an 01 maybe 02. With many of them being 1995-2000 models.


As you said about your head gasket, I believe my turbo was a bad one as well. Once it was replaced, it was 150% louder then ever before. And boost was 3-5 psi more at max boost.