Im gonna be gettin my 04 here purty soon, and i was gonna get the dealer to turn up the Tortion bars to level out the ride....Is there any draw backs to doing it this way? does the ride quality suffer? if so, what other systems are out there?


Also what size tires can you safely fit with a level 2500HD? I was thinkin 32x11.50 or hopefully 33x12.50?


Thanks for the help!


Jared

try this link for more information


http://dieselplace.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1496&PN=1

I have studied that very informative and also very funny link (former post) about the normal key, green key, torsion preload...etc. and the people who got "hurt" about their misunderstood "set of the pants" feelings by installing the green keys. Dont want to start it all over again. But...

Dawgj77, if you can accomplish your desired lift height (no more than 2 inches anyway are good) without those infamous green keys save the money and don't buy them. After all those keys are just made of standard steel (9SMnPb28S). Either green, pink or yellow - the law of physics will never change, not today or tomorrow.... If the adjusted height is the same than pretension, preload...whatever you call it (and you can spend pages to explain it...) MUST BE THE SAME - whatever key you have installed. This little piece of cheap steel at the end of the spring steel torsion bar will only hold that bar in a predefined and pretensioned position. The adjustment surely effects the ride and suspension characteristics but not the color or shape of that key will ever do that. Just spend one minute to make a drawing how this torsion bar with the key operates - its really no magic to understand just simple physics.

"Seat of the pants" feelings always lie, law of physics never lie. If I feel warm today with 90 degrees in the sun and tomorrow cold with 90 degrees in the sun it doesn't mean the temperature changed. If spending 40+ bucks on another formed piece of steel to accomplish the exact same thing makes people feel better so be it, not a bad investment for a 47 K $ truck to feel good - but its just a feeling, has nothing to do with physics....
Just my 2c

I think I remember seeing a kit on ebay that is being sold so you don't have to go cranking on the bars....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

"I think I remember seeing a kit on ebay that is being sold so you don't have to go cranking on the bars"


Yea green keys, or a knock off.


I always give my trucks 3 or 4 turns as soon as I get home from the dealer.


I gave the H2 5 turns for some extra rock clearance.

You will need longer front shocks.


I put six turns on my new lly and the factory front shocks were completely maxed out (extended). The ride was horrible until I put a set of 99000x Ranchos on the truck.


Rides better than factory IMHO.


I always level the truck from side to side with a tape measure on the frame. Make sure you are parked on a very level surface and the suspension is not tweaked. I think this time my driver's side aduster took 8 turns while the passenger took only 6. This has always been the case on my GM trucks.


This allowed me to fit 285 BFGs on 8" Welds. I still had to modify the air dam on the front (GMC) and trim the front of the inner fender wells to keep from rubbing at full lock.


Hope it helps..................

Stock keys cranked to reach 2" of lift equals harsh ride and foamy beer!


Green keys installed and cranked to reach 2" equals smoother ride and no foamy beer!


Facts are facts! Not just seat of the pants!

2'' of lift is 2" of lift regardless of which keys are used.


I agree with what was stated before by mahalkita. Green keys do not somehow magically change the spring rate of the torsion bars.


You guys are trying really hard to justify spending the extra moneyhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

I have the green keys and would not recommend putting green keys in or cranking the torsion bars. I have gone thru two tierods, two idler arms, two pitman arms and two wheel bearings. If you want lift buy a lift kit. I could have paid for a real lift with the money I have spend on replacement parts. Cranking the torsion bars or the green keys puts your front end in a bind and the parts wear out alot quicker. Save yourself same hassle and do it right. Edited by: BassinRVer

I agree with BassinRVer,
to do it right the best if to install a suspension lift kit. RCD makes a nice one with the Bistein 5100s shocks. The added pretension from tweaking the torsion bars must go somewhere...

I have the green keys and would not recommend putting green keys in or cranking the torsion bars. I have gone thru two tierods, two idler arms, two pitman arms and two wheel bearings. If you want lift buy a lift kit. I could have paid for a real lift with the money I have spend on replacement parts. Cranking the torsion bars or the green keys puts your front end in a bind and the parts wear out alot quicker. Save yourself same hassle and do it right.


The added pretension from tweaking the torsion bars must go somewhere...


Well, After the well thought out initial comments in this thread, I gotta say it's getting a little deep. There is no way a wheel bearing goes out due to a lift (torsion or otherwise). Tire size and vehicle application will affect bearing loading and wear. The same goes for idler arms and tie-rod ends ( as long as they are not binding at the ends of their travel). Although the vehicle may be lifted, the amount of movement, and thus wear of each part remains pretty constant.


My wifes Yukon also needed a new idler, bearings, and tie-rod ends. It has no lift.


Thoughts?


Jeff

ZZ4x4,


Go ask the lift kit maufacturers why they put spaciers in the left kits. They do it to take the extra load off the wheel bearings. This is why the track width is wider with certain lifts - they know it is a problem.Edited by: BassinRVer

I just turned up my torsion bars last evening. I cranked 3 complete turns on both sides and netted a 5/8" increase in ride height.

I'm measuring from the ground up through the centerline of the front wheel to the wheelwell flare. I was at 37 3/4" and am now at 38 3/8". No noticable ride difference, but the angle I sit in the truck is noticably different. Hood seems higher.

While it didn't "level" the truck, I didn't WANT to. When I hook up to my trailer, it is now "level". I hate the nose high stance. I like a little front rake to it.

I think its a combination of many things....................


I had a stock Sub that needed both wheel bearings, idler arm, pitman arm and tie rod ends at 80k! This was with stock tires. My last LB7 needed idler arm and pitman arm at 82k running 285s. After owning numerous GM trucks I just consider front end parts as consumables and replace them with out question (think of it like brake pads they wear out!). Large tires and or lifting the truck will accelerate the wear.


Which spacers are you talking about BassinRVer? I am not familiar with the spacers you are talking about or the reasoning behind using them. If anything I would thing wheel spacers would put more leverage on the wheel bearings compounding the problem.


From what I have seen all manufactures have trouble with premature wear with unit-bearings. Ask the dodge guys about unit-bearings and track bars!! I have seen some unit bearings last forever and some barely make it 50K, go figure............. Why can't someone make a full float IFS setup for an HD Truck?

It's common for folks (like us) who have lifted trucks to run bigger tires. These bigger / wider tires do put stress on bearings due to wheel offsets or spacers required to make them fit. I still contend that additional wear on front end parts is due to tires and not the lift (with the exception of u-joints and CV joints which go through a wider arc with every rotation of the wheel).

ZZ4x4,


I agree with you the tires are most likely the culprit. A properly engineered lift should put no additional stress or wear on front end componets but larger tires most certainly will!


BTW if someone is using wheel spacers on the front of their truck they are not using the right wheel...........................

I'm with ZZ4X4 on this one! It's rotating mass, not more you have, the more work your truck has to do to keep it all in line, Normal wear and tear is simply accelerated on a lifted truck or bigger tires.


As for the green keys or stock keys, adding tension to the T-bar will raise your truck with either, all you're doing is moving your adjustment range into a higher height. With the same T-bar it's impossible to have a different spring rate. Now if one was to go to a different material for the t-bar, then I could see it, but same spring = same spring rate.


-Zorganov

Go ask a manufacturer that uses a spindle lift if they built a spacer into the spindle. Then ask them why they do this. To take the load off the wheel bearing. This is not a stand along wheel spacer - they built it into the spindle.

BassinRVer, I know what you are saying, and I am not doubting that the spindle is spaced to take the stress off of the bearing. Perhaps if the stocker had the wider spindle, it would last longer. More distance between the inner and outer bearing means there is less leverage on them by the hub.


My point is that if you are a stock bearing spinning in your little world, there is no difference whether you are on a lifted truck or a stock height truck.


I do see your point in that the selection of a properly designed lift could have extended the life between service intervals. There are heavier duty tie-rods, spindles, etc available.


I'm saying that to simply lift a truck doesn't mean it'll wear faster than stock.


See ya,


jeffEdited by: ZZ4x4

Help me understand this spacer thing............. How exactly does it change the load on the unit-bearing??

I also do not see how a wide spindle or spacer will remove loading on the unit-bearing unless it was selected to allow a wheel to fit that would have otherwise needed a large offset. If a spacer was added on the wheel hub behind the wheel, it would only add to the stress. Any spacer would have to be behind the bearings (if that's even possible).