i have the ac delco pumps (2) for the 6.5 diesel. i am getting 1/2 inch line for the duramax. is there a single fitting that fits into the pump, like a barb type fitting that i can put the hose right on to, or do i have to use different fitting to do this??? any help or pics would be great. even a web listing as well Edited by: moss022

The easiest best way to connect to the AC pumps (EP158 or EP309) is with JK's new fittings (http://www.kennedydiesel.com/detail.cfm?ID=285)…

These pumps (EP158 or EP309) use a fuel line fitting that seals with an O-ring. For my setup (before JK's fittings were available) I used two NAPA 730-4929 3/8 tube fuel line kits along with parker CPI compression fittings as shown in the following pic.

Lift Pump Connections (http://community.webshots.com/photo/77018086/77108759zyqTIo)

More pics and complete parts list (second page) are posted on webshots: LiftPump-PreFilter Pictures (http://community.webshots.com/album/77018086bLHHHC)

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

<DIV>Jeremy</DIV>
<DIV>You can take the pump you have to a local business that specializes in hydraulic fittings and they will have some fittings that will fit right</DIV>
<DIV>on to the pump that you can put the barb fittings on. </DIV>

Buy a 1/2 inch flare tool, use AN fittings and push lock hose. Its a hell of a lot cleaner install, and very easy to do.. PM me if you need more info.. Good luck. (PS, isn't Kennedy's fittings 3/8s?)


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/CBZ_Lift_Pump.jpg

Used the same NAPA fittings as jbplock and used Swagelok stainless for the rest. Swagelok does make a 1/2" to 3/8" reduction tube fitting however I chose to use an adaptor on the 3/8" side just in case I ever want to plumb in a bypass add another filter or remove the LP and replace the 1/2" piece of s/s that I cut out. Less fittings to buy in the future.
BTW: Bill as well as Max Power helped in answering my electrical questions for this install. Bill has a bunch of pics posted which should guide you through it. Thanks guys for your help. I'll post a picture of my install, never posted pics before, hope it works. Oh and one other thing, the OEM line snaps back into all the clips except the one to the right of the LP. I turned that one sideways and will tywrap it.
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/Lift-Pump_connections.jpg Edited by: TC Dmax

I am just completing the same install and used AN fittings I from a hydraulic supply house - no o-ring, but at the low pressure this pump generates, they weren't too concerned about leaks - we'll see. I, too, went from these flare fittings to 3/8" steel fuel line. I also flared my OEM lines - make sure to use a kit that double-flares the lines or it could crack after a while and with vibration if only single flared. NAPA sells the double flare kit for just over $50. Good luck!

Used the same NAPA fittings as jbplock and used Swagelok stainless for the rest. Swagelok does make a 1/2" to 3/8" reduction tube fitting however I chose to use an adaptor on the 3/8" side just in case I ever want to plumb in a bypass add another filter or remove the LP and replace the 1/2" piece of s/s that I cut out. Less fittings to buy in the future.
BTW: Bill as well as Max Power helped in answering my electrical questions for this install. Bill has a bunch of pics posted which should guide you through it. Thanks guys for your help. I'll post a picture of my install, never posted pics before, hope it works. Oh and one other thing, the OEM line snaps back into all the clips except the one to the right of the LP. I turned that one sideways and will tywrap it.
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/Lift-Pump_connections.jpg


Aren't you a bit concerned going from 1/2 inch line to 3/8?

actually i probably wouldn't be, as that pump has such a low output i doubt it will matter... besides.. you ever measured the inside of the pickup...its small..

i plan on droping the fuel tank and disconnect the hose there. then it will go to a 1/2" line that i need to get a Y fitting, then goes into the 2 pumps. from there i plan on running 2 lines into the cat filter head i am getting in the mail anyday now. then only use one fitting out of the filter, and back into the stock filter. i plan on using as much rubber hose as possiable just for ease of install!! F.Y.I. i am getting the brackets that hold these pumps from gm. they are only 5 bucks a piece. now i have to make a plate to mount on the frame somewhere. i just wanted to keep all of the adaptions down to a minimum. i didnt know if they make what i want. the trip to the fitting shop wont come until a few days from now when i have all the parts and can put it together before i leave!!! anyways i just wanted to tell everyone thanks so much for the help!!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

I am seriously considering a lift pump as well. Our diesel (my wife considers the truck hers http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif) is a 2004.5 LLY. I have hopes of one day hot rodding it a bit. For now I'm installing a pre-OEM filter and now have thoughts of a lift pump. I'm looking at the AC Delco pumps also because now that I've invested a couple of hundred in a pre-filter setup I find it hard justifying another $500-600 more for a Preporator. I like the simplicity of the AC Delco install, the ability to quickly replace it and that, according to those who are in the know, it will continue to flow in the event of a failure--hopefully not leaving me or God forbid the wife stranded.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Pinch.gif


I'm detail oriented and I know what I like. I really like the way "hasselbach" and "a bear" have installed their pumps. I find this site helpful, informative. It would be really cool when guys who do quality installs like that of hasselbach and a bear post a detailed list of parts used---quanti****, part #'s, sourced from where, the more pics and instructions the better for the novices, like myself....that is if they do not mind. I would hope that they take it that I might more or less copy their work or at least use it for my own creative inspiration as a compliment.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif


As an aside, I guess it's been too long since I did any work on cars. I did not even know what Push Lock fittings and hoses were about until I ordered my pre-OEM filter kit from Lubrication Specialists.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif I was more used to black 3/8 or 7/16 fuel line, barbs, and hose clamps---never liked the looks of it. I don't plan on going back.


Hasselbach, sorry for the unsolicited private message, but you've got mail because I've got questions.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

The little pump pictured is not a HP unit. It is just a means of providing pressurized supply most of the time for general driving.





My fittings are stainless steel and accept a 1/2" hose, BUT the internal plumbing is quite small, so a 3/8" tube is no problem.





I originally discussed the set up with Jbplock and Abear using cautious optimism. The bypass loop was installed to serve 2 purposes. 1) to limit psi to a bare minimum. 2) to provide an alternative flow path for fuel when demand exceeded pump flow or in the event of pump failure.





Since then, I've had the fittings built, and have been used the pump w/o bypass. I've dyno testeted to 450 RWHP with this pump installed, and believe me, it doesn't keep up by any stretch of the imagination. It also doen't degrade power, and does keep fuel liquid...

So what are the differences betwen the two AC Delco pumps and is one better than the other?

hasselbach
Going from 1/2" to 3/8" with this pump as mentioned above is not a concern. The fuel enters and exits the pump through 3/8" openings anyway and adding a total of say 1.5" of 3/8" pipe will have little effect on pressure.
Just a bit of clarification on this install. I chose the AC Delco EP 309 pump with the expectation of providing the fuel system with a small amount of positive pressure under lower HP conditions. This will hopefully as John mentioned above "keep the fuel liquid" and will maximize the surface area (usage) of both fuel filters, again in the hopes of attaining cleaner fuel while doing so in an economical manner. This setup was never intended to satisfy fuel flows for higher HP's and this is also why the reduction from 1/2"-3/8" is a moot point in this situation.

from what i have found out is that there are two of these ac delco pumps. one flow 32 gph and the other flows 20. they both are suposed to top out at about 10-12 psi-according to a book the parts guy has. i have the 20 now and the 32 coming. the 20 will be the one i run all the time while the 32 will be the one i use on top of the 20 when i pull. we shall see what happenshttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

from what i have found out is that there are two of these ac delco pumps. one flow 32 gph and the other flows 20.

which one is 32 gph?

Jim

Ok, why not just wire the pump to come on with the ignition? Are you worried about crashing and pumping fuel causing a fire? With the AC Delco pumps if they go bad I understand you can draw fuel thru them, is this correct? I suppose one could just put a switch in the truck and only turn on the pump if you took a notion. Is it necessary to run the pump with a relay due to current draw? Edited by: Blue Max

Blue Max
The AC Delco 309 is flow thru if the pump goes bad. Not sure about the other one? If you use an oil pressure switch running thru a 30A relay no worries about the pump comming on if you happen to have the ignition on and engine not running for some reason. With an in cab switch you'd have to remember to turn it on and off all the time. Relays are generally a safer way to run circuits.

this is what i am going to do. my wiring is aready to go, just got to plumb it in now. i go two different power sorces from under the dash that are switched. put two stwiches inbetween my ebrake release and brake controller. the only time i have the key on and the engine not running is when i am switching programs. so all i have to do is turn them off. if it goes bad then i will get a new pump. kiss--keep it simple silly

I have just completed install of an EP309 pump after a 10 micron Racor filter and before a CAT filter. I have yet to receive the Weatherpak connector so am running with the pump installed but not operating yet. The truck runs well except for WOT, when it seems to surge and stumble a little. I checked the fuel system vacuum with a Kent-Moore gauge and found that the system is at 5 - 6" of vacuum at idle. This is with the gauge resting on the core support. As JK has noted before, moving the gauge to different positions alters the reading substantially so I try to place it at the same place (mainly the same level) every time. Prior to installing the CAT filter and the lift pump, I was running 1.5" vacuum when drawing from my aux tank in my box and 2.5" from the OEM tank. These readings were both down from the 3.5" I was running prior to plumbing in the Racor and the aux tank. Both tanks now run through a Pollak selector valve which has 3/8" ports for the supply line. I attribute the reduction in vacuum to the removal of two nearly 90 deg. bends in the OEM supply line just forward of the fuel cooler. The steel line flattens through the bends. So, I agree that short runs of 3/8" fuel hose or line don't have much affect - I actually saw an improvement. And, I can testify that the truck will run fairly well with the lift pump installed but non functioning, should it ever break down on the road.


Also, someone mentioned using the OEM fuel pump bracket to hold the pump - I have one and it fits perfectly into the two vacant holes in the driver side frame, ahead of the fuel cooler. The only issue is that it doesn't hold the pump very tight - it can slide back and forth. The OEM setup it was designed for has the pump mounted on steel fuel line which holds the pump from moving fore and aft and the bracket just keeps it from vibrating and possibly from causing the fuel line to sag. This wouldn't work too well if you use flexible hose to connect the pump. I chose not to use mine and fabricated a different bracket that holds my filters and pump together.


Good luck!


Don

I typically obtain a reading of 2.5 inHg when using the KentMoore gauge on my truck (which has a Pre-OEM Racor installed). If I obtained a reading of 6 inHg, I would consider changing the fuel filters (I realize in your case, it is the non-operational fuel pump). It is good to see someone is actually taking measurements without the added lift pump running. I was always curious what the results would be!

What gauge of wire are you guys running back to the lift pumps? Is voltage drop a concern or not?

Blue Max wrote:
"So what are the differences between the two AC Delco pumps and is one better than the other?"

I've never found any published specs on the AC EP158 or EP309 but from what I've been able to determine by cross referencing similar pumps, reading the forums, talking to people, the basic differences are as follows:

EP309 is more expensive than the EP158
EP309 is internally regulated, EP158 is not - this is the reason to use the EP309 if you don't have a bypass regulator (My set-up (http://community.webshots.com/album/77018086bLHHHC) uses the EP158 with a bypass)

As others have posted, both pumps are a flow through design. My truck runs OK with the lift pump turned off (however the Mega filter will collect vapor without the pump running). I currently have the regulator set for 0-1 psi at the schrader valve test port (at idle) and I get no vapor, all filters are completely fluid packed and the truck runs great.

Blue Max wrote:
"why not just wire the pump to come on with the ignition?

The only reason for the oil pressure switch (OPS) is safety in the event of an accident - no oil pressure - no fuel is pumping. Also if an OPS is used, a relay between the OPS and pump protects the OPS contacts from arcing caused by switching the inductive pump-load.

Blue Max wrote:
"What gauge of wire are you guys running back to the lift pumps? Is voltage drop a concern or not?"

I'm using 12 Gauge wire with a 10 amp fuse but you could get by with less (18-14).

Hope this helps..
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Hey Bill, thanks for your help. I have looked at all your pictures and I can tell you like to do a good job on all your projects. My truck had a bad case of high speed missing a week ago and I could find no problems with the exception of some air in the system. I bled out the air and have driven another 1400 miles with no problems. The only thing I can figure is the air caused my problem so it must be lift pump time. It has never been a problem before but it was quite warm that day and I was pulling my trailor. I guess time will tell. Thanks, Mike-