Which is the best 285 studable winter tire?

Cooper M+S is what I plow with. They rock......wear pretty fast in the summer though.

Cooper M+S is what I plow with. They rock......wear pretty fast in the summer though.

I like them too but in a 16"rim the biggest is a 265, they do have a 275 for a 17"rim but I don't think my ClassicsII would like the salt

Ahhh yes.....I ran 265 in that size and liked em but wish they had other offereings. Wish they had a 255 actualy. Fronts didnt wear bad but I will need a new set for the backs this winter to plow with.....never did a burn out or realy drove hard.....but over 1k pounds in the bed behind the rear wheels and the back being the drive tires.....dont think I want to try and plow with em like that. Got maybe 13k on em??? Fronts aint bad though.....

Ya the one I had didn't last long but they sure worked good

the General grabbers AT's can be studded. they seem to work fine for us without the studs but in that sit. I think they would be needed so... and they seem to wear pretty well also

You can also look at the Firestone Destination M/T's. They take studs. I have never tried them in the snow, but they grip pretty good on the wet, dry, mud, dirt, grass, and even wet cowpies!!!! Great tire!! They also wear like IRON!!! Almost 10K on them and they I can't measure any wear at all!! Of course, I rotate them every 3,000 without fail. Best tire I have ever run. :D

I second the general grabber AT2 ):h they are awesome in the snow and they are studable!!!! 285, 295, 305 any size ya want!:grd:

285 is too wide for a dedicated snow/ice tire. I have had good success with Cooper S/Ts in 255/85/16s. I run these as dedicated winter tires The tires are sipped and studded, and wear like iron.

Go with Nokian tires and forget the studs. I ran studed coopers last weekend and I was not really impressed.

Why is 285 too wide for a dedicated snow tire? I thought you wanted traction. (I just moved up from FL and this is my first actual "Winter" here in colorado so educate me lol.) I wanted to put 285's on my ride for this winter and ditch the crappy stock 245's but funds are limited at the moment.

Traction in the snow and ice is different than in sand and thick mud. In sand and mud, a wider tire will help you stay on top. In snow and ice you need as much pressure on the contact patch as possible. The wider the tire is, the less pressure it exerts on the road and the less traction you have. the point of studding tires is to give some very small contact points with a lot of pressure on them. Here is the mathmatical formula:
Traction = weight * coefficient of friction / contact area.
My next set of winter tires will be LT235/85/16E's on my spare set of PYO's

Thought you still would want wider tires for fresh/untracked snow and narrower tires (for the added pressure = grip) for ice and packed snow.


At any rate, to answer the query here. I have some 285 Dayton Timberline MTs and they are studdable. I think they have other sizes if it does prove to be in opportune to have the wider tire in most snowy/icy conditions. They are cheap as well and have lasted great (right around 30K miles now and still have at least 1/4" tread left).


C-ya

The skinnier the better in snow. All of the mail carriers in norther wi use snow tires so skinny that they look like the donut spare tires in passenger cars. Instead of floating, you go right down through the fresh snow to the salt or sand on the road. Doesn't look as cool though.

Cooper makes a 275-70-r17 so I'll think I run a studded set on my Classic II's But I'm going to have to wack the Zoop seal to them before the salt comes....

BFG ATs

BFG KO AT's or Bridgestone Revo's both are outstanding in nasty winter weather in michigan. I have to go out a lot in bad weather and either tire performs great.

Maxxis has plenty of tires in 16" and 17".
I'm leaning toward 255/86-16 bighorns w/ studs.
they also have buckshots that are studable.
These replace a set of 265/75-16 buckshots that have 3 winters on them and are 1/2 wore out.
Some pics in my garage of them.

http://www.maxxis.com/products/automotive/product_detail.asp?id=282

I would think that you would want deep tread and wide tires for snow because if they are wide enough they would create a small build up of snow if it was 3" deep.

Also, the 245's are too skinny for a 6,000lb truck. I have 235's on the front of my cutlass that weighs 3300lbs and 295's on the back and im still able to lock them up on dry pavement... the 245's I have had it kick on the ABS a couple of times slowing down to stop due to the loss of traction on the front wheels. I would think that since the rolling mass of your truck creates thermal energy (causing the snow to melt slightly) when you drive over it it would create a wet area. Thus wanting deep tread with or skinny solid rubber tires.

I would think that a deep tread would help scavange the water from the tire vs a skinny tire that has no deep tread.

He doesnt look like he is having a problem in the snow, he is running 37X12.50X18 BFG Mud-Terrains

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/garage_images/i4535.jpg

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/garage_images/i8996.jpg

That's what I put on my truck in the winter. Grips like you wouldn't believe on both ice and snow (packed or loose). Starts to feel squirmy once the temps go above 40 so i don't put them on until November and typically come off sometime in early April. Depends a bit on what the weather's doing up here in Minnesota. Biggest size they've got, and it's what I use, are 265/75-16.

Continental Sportiva's, available @ Tirecraft. I think that they are the same tires as the General Grabbers. I ran my set for approx. 80K km, (two winters), and the studs were still in good shape. They are also quite decent in the mud and quiet on the highway. These have been the best all-around tire that I have owned.

Presently, I am trying out a set of Toyo M55's in @ 255/85/16 - good reputation, but they howl on pavement.

What about cooper h/t's they are almost the same tred at the m/s's

Cooper M&S are very good studdable tires. This winter I just ordered (yesterday) a set of Green Diamond Icelander A/T's in 265/75R16-LRE. They should be here on Wednesday. I won't need to stud these, well see how these do compared to studdable tires. I've been wanting to try these for a long time. They've got silica chips embedded throughout the depth of the tread. I really wanted 235/85's (a litttle narrower than stock) but they didn't make these in that particular size (at least not yet).

DEWFPO

Nokian Vativa. 40k so far, will be done at 55k.
I have run this set year round with quite a bit of towing.
Come November the same thing will be going on (265/75/16).


SC

I'm really looking into the Nokians for this winter. I've never run dedicated winter tires in the past--always just have run all terrain's year-round.

I'm tired of sliding around though! Last year I had some problems even with 800 lbs. of sand in the back, a full toolbox, and brand new 265/75/16 Bridgestone REVOs.

On the wide versus skinny issue: I'm a big believer in skinnier tires for snow traction. I wouldn't really call the 265s I normally run a "wide" tire, but I'm thinking about trying the Nokians in a 235/85 this year.

Does anybody run them in that size? I need load range E in the winter still because I do pull fairly heavy once in a while, and swapping out tires just to make one trip isn't probably ever going to happen!

Cooper M&S are very good studdable tires. This winter I just ordered (yesterday) a set of Green Diamond Icelander A/T's in 265/75R16-LRE. They should be here on Wednesday. I won't need to stud these, well see how these do compared to studdable tires. I've been wanting to try these for a long time. They've got silica chips embedded throughout the depth of the tread. I really wanted 235/85's (a litttle narrower than stock) but they didn't make these in that particular size (at least not yet).

DEWFPO

That tire looks identical to the tread pattern of a Bridgestone REVO. Did you get the wrong pic by chance, or is that the real tire?

On the wide versus skinny issue: I'm a big believer in skinnier tires for snow traction. I wouldn't really call the 265s I normally run a "wide" tire, but I'm thinking about trying the Nokians in a 235/85 this year.

Does anybody run them in that size? I need load range E in the winter still because I do pull fairly heavy once in a while, and swapping out tires just to make one trip isn't probably ever going to happen!

I ran 235's on my '03 (SRW). I am admittedly heavy on the throttle, and the 235's don't have enough contact patch to hook very well. While they were okay in the snow, they wore FAST. I've noticed considerably longer treadlife with 265's in winter, and 285's in the summer. On all of my work trucks (DRW) I run 235's year round, as they are loaded heavy all the time, and excessive power really isn't an issue...

That tire looks identical to the tread pattern of a Bridgestone REVO. Did you get the wrong pic by chance, or is that the real tire?

That's the pic off their website when I ordered the tires. I am expecting them any day now so I let you know.

DEWFPO

Ok CoyoteKid,

The Green Diamonds arrived today. Here are the pics. These Icelander A/T's use the Bridgestone Revo tread pattern. I was told that the tread patterns are not patented. This particular set of 4 LT265/75R16-LRE tires were made off of BFG carcasses. I'll have them mounted as soon as I can and see how they ride.

DEWFPO

Thanks for the pics!

I really hope they work out for you--I called and talked with Rich at their Colorado headquarters just to find out some more info.

He led me to believe they use primarily Goodyear casings with the other roughly 20% being Michelin casings. It's interesting that yours are BFG casings...

It also seems to me these aren't your typical retreads. Some folks are immediately against them because they're made from old carcasses/casings, but these aren't just a strip of new tread from what I understand. They essentially rebuild the entire tire.

Rich is a great guy, I met him today. It's possible he said Goodyear and I thought he said BFG. I was writing a check to a repairman at the same time Rich was talking to me about the tires so I had 2 conversations going on at once. Probably my fault.

Yeah, if you look at their process, they're not just a typical retread. Rich told me that the City of Vail snow plows use the Green Diamond tires as well as Red Sky Ranch (near Wolcott) and other notable outfits. I asked him why they were sold out of the 235/85/16's and he said that their entire supply for this year went up to the North Slope of Alaska. He's planning on opening a production facilty locally to keep up with the western US demand. The list of municipalities and organizations using these tires is impressive. They all can't be wrong. We'll see.

DEWFPO

So you mean to tell me that those tires are just re-treads with a Dular A/T tread pattern? Interesting, guess it goes to show you the quality of the Bridgestone Dular A/T Revo tires! Are they any cheeper?

So you mean to tell me that those tires are just re-treads with a Dular A/T tread pattern? Interesting, guess it goes to show you the quality of the Bridgestone Dular A/T Revo tires! Are they any cheeper?

Yes and no. They are supposed to be high quality retreads (only premium carcasses are used after a sophisticated examination process), in this case Goodyear and Michelin carcasees, then they are laser cut for perfect roundness and are then remolded using the same technology and equipment as OE except wth silicon crystals embedded in the rubber tread.

At least that's what they say.

For the 265's Load Range E they are $159 each. Cheaper if you go 245 and/or Load Range D.

DEWFPO

DEWFPO--

Sounds like this is the route I might go. I think the traction advantage also comes from the softer tread compound. Rich told me the compound is a Cooper compound, and in my experience most Coopers are fairly soft. That should be good for traction along with the "green diamonds" I'm thinking.

Are you gonna run them year-round? I'm afraid I'll burn through them quickly if I run them year round, especially in the summer when I'm towing most of the time.

DEWFPO--

Sounds like this is the route I might go. I think the traction advantage also comes from the softer tread compound. Rich told me the compound is a Cooper compound, and in my experience most Coopers are fairly soft. That should be good for traction along with the "green diamonds" I'm thinking.

Are you gonna run them year-round? I'm afraid I'll burn through them quickly if I run them year round, especially in the summer when I'm towing most of the time.


I am used to running a dedicated winter (studded ice/snow tire) and that was my original plan with the Green Diamonds but I read somewhere that I can expect anywhere from 40-45,000 miles out of these tires and many folks run them year round. In fact, they apparently grip really well on wet (rainy) pavement as well. So I am reconsidering just running them during the winter.

I've used soft compound tires before and they grip amazingly well in the winter. But the trade-off is that they usually wear out more quickly. I hope the GD's are a soft compund. That would make them an even better winter tire and that's what I bought them specifically for. Those Scandinavian folks know what works on ice and hard packed snow. I've used studded Nokian Hakkapellita's before on a RWD car and they were terrific.

I have a a 200' long, north facing, paved driveway with a constant 12% grade that ices over often after I plow/snowblow it. I've been having to sand it to get my RWD vehicles up it. Even with studs. If the driveway has any ice on it at all, I have to put the 2500HD into 4HI to get up it (currently has non-studded M&S tires on it). Rich saw it and said I'll be impressed with the performance of these tires. Like I said, we'll see.

DEWFPO

Well I happen to have a spare set of PYO's I am planning to mount winter tires on. This thread has got my interest on the Green tires. DEWFPO, keep us informed on how you like them. I'm in Oregon and it's unclear how you go about ordering them and where they ship from. If you don't mind me asking was shipping expensive? I've never bought tires mail-order and have always been paranoid of having a problem with a tire. Is there any warranty on them?

Well I happen to have a spare set of PYO's I am planning to mount winter tires on. This thread has got my interest on the Green tires. DEWFPO, keep us informed on how you like them. I'm in Oregon and it's unclear how you go about ordering them and where they ship from. If you don't mind me asking was shipping expensive? I've never bought tires mail-order and have always been paranoid of having a problem with a tire. Is there any warranty on them?

Hi Tophog,

I've bought mail order twice. Once from TireRack and this time directly from the Green Diamond distributor who just happens to be about 175 miles from me so he personnally delivered all 4 tires to me for a total of $30. On the GD website it says $79.xx for delivery anywhere in the cont. US with a $25 discount for orders placed in Sept. So GD tires tires going anywhere west of the MS river will most likely come out of Colorado,

The tires I bought from tirerack I had dropped shipped to a Big O tire outfit in town where I had them mounted and balanced. I did have a problem (sidewall bubble) with one of the tires (after many miles) that Big O pointed out when they re-balanced/rotated the tires. They called TireRack directly for me and took a tread depth measurement. Big O called TireRack back and then they put me on the phone with TR who said they would warranty the tire since it was within 1/32 inch of going out of warranty. I had to pay for shipping it back. I just wrapped it in a black plastic trash bag and shipped it parcel post at the post office.

The problem arose when TireRack got the tire. Their measurement of tread depth was 1/32" less then the fellow at Big O so TR said the warranty was out and they wouldn't replace it free. I was there when Big O took the measurement so I pitched a fit since I couldn't be there to verify TR's measurement. I spoke to a supervisor and they offered to get me a new tire for 1/2 the price plus free shipping. It would not have been a problem if there was more tread left on the tire.

There's a very good warranty on the Green Diamond tires, go to their website and either e-mail Rich (he gets back to you fast) or call him and he can answer all your questions. He's a good guy. I talked to him for a while when he delivered my tires.

I'll keep you guys posted on how they work out.

DEWFPO

The skinnier the better in snow. All of the mail carriers in norther wi use snow tires so skinny that they look like the donut spare tires in passenger cars.
Absolutely! The skinnier the better in snow. Make them so skinny they are embarrassing. I'm not talking a little theoretical better - the amount of traction with skinny tires in the snow is MUCH greater than wide tires. When I lived in Steamboat Springs, CO (360 inches of snow per year) I used to pull all kinds of 4x's out of snow banks with my skinny Sears snow tires. They didn't even have studs. I actually pulled one guy out of a snow bank with all four of his nice wide snow tires locked solid. My Jeepster may not have looked cool to people who didn't know snow, but it was a snow monster with those tires! Hell, I even went OFF-ROAD snow a couple of times with those skinny tires.

Instead of floating, you go right down through the fresh snow to the salt or sand on the road. Doesn't look as cool though.
No, sorry, that's not the reason. The theory is that you need maximum weight per square inch in snow to keep the snow from sliding on itself under the tire. It isn't the amount of friction between the tire and the snow that is the limiting factor - its the shearing friction of the snow under the tire that is important. Too wide a tire and there isn't enough downward force to create that friction within the snow.

Best way to do it is to have one set of skinny wheels and tires for winter snow and a wider set for summer.