I know there is Banks and Bully dog and MPBR but what else is out there? I am looking for better performance and mileage but don't want it to be any louder or drone in the cab. Would I be better off going cat back or full monty. We do not have inspections here so I feel OK doing either.


Sorry this is the umpteenth exhaust question but I researched and found mostly early LLY starts or LB7. I figure now things have been on for a few months and some good info could be had.





Thanks



TC

To get the full benefit go with a turbo downpipe back full exhaust instead of the flange back only.


I know that some would argue that the CAT or flange back exhaust is good enough but I would go with the full exhaust.


You named a couple.......TTS makes one as does Kennedy...and others as well.


Check out our Vendors here..........most will help answer questions.


The difference in materials is a consideration as well.


Stainless exhausts come in 304 and 409 stainless.


Some have welded hangers..some have clamp on.......


I currently have the BANKS 4", but may be switching to something else....SOONhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif.


Thttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gifNY

Ok on that note then what is the diff between


Aluminized system


T-304 and T-409?

If they salt your roads, you want stainless. If you are keeping for 10 years, you want stainless.


I drove the TTS shop truck with their system on it, and it is very quiet. If you are looking for 4", stainless, and quiet you should also look at that system.


Me? I'm going to run open exhaust... ;) Details and dyno's soon.

OK on that note then what is the diff between


Aluminized system


T-304 and T-409?





Aluminized does not LOOK as GOOD or last as long especially in winter - salty areas as stainless will.


The stock GM exhaust is I believe T-409 stainless.........


T-304 is a higher grade.......if you want specifics PM or ask MACKIN.......as that is his business...........he would know all the details there are about it.


The BANKS is T-409....and looking at mine it has been on for about 1 year and is rusting..........not bad but I will post some PICS soon to show how the salt here effected it........and I am in NO WAY knocking BANKS or the exhaust, just the fact that the salt is very corrosive.


Some offer a T-409 with a T-304 muffler and hangers....


So the choices are abundant as well as the cost differences.


The old saying holds true...you get what you pay for.


Thttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gifNY

I have aluminized and it has been on for close to a year and one IL winter. I plow salted lots and drive quite a bit(22k miles thusfar) The system still looks good with no visible rust. I was leary of buying a non SS exhaust but my only chice I could find in 5" at the time was aluminized. Its rear hangars arnt welded on, they are a clamp on with those ubolt muffler clamp type bottoms, and those are surface rusing. We shall see in a few more years. But other than that......I bought JK's system. Quad also makes one.

TTS stainless steel 4", your ears won't even know it's installed!

Mackin,


I know there are two different stainless steels out there for exhaust. But what do the numbers mean in T-409 and T-304? Just curious as to what the numbers reflect in the steel.

Different alloys. I know I will get this mixed up but 409 is harder and is more corrosion resistant.

I have aluminized and it has been on for close to a year and one IL winter. I plow salted lots and drive quite a bit(22k miles thusfar) The system still looks good with no visible rust. I was leary of buying a non SS exhaust but my only chice I could find in 5" at the time was aluminized. Its rear hangars arnt welded on, they are a clamp on with those ubolt muffler clamp type bottoms, and those are surface rusing. We shall see in a few more years. But other than that......I bought JK's system. Quad also makes one.











Aluminized will retain a much better appearance than 409SS. Think of it like galvanizing.





The OEM system has an aluminized coating on it. Not even going to debate what is underneath the coating.





The OE Ford system is a 409 or similar. They rust right on the lot. Just surface scale, but it's rust nonetheless.





The GM gassers use 409ss pre muffler, and 2004 up Dmax's apparently do too from what I've seen. They will discolor brown, and eventually orange. The surface rust is VERY slow to progress, but it does progress. The old 6.5 catalytic converters were 409 ss...








Photo courtesy McRat. New 409ss vs almost new 409ss. Don't think they get much road salt in CA:





http://dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/4DA_pipe.JPGEdited by: Kennedy

Now I'm really confused. I thought (from what I've heard here) that Aluminized will rust long before SS. Is that not really true???

The DPPI is a good looking, great quality & fitting 4" exhaust system but it is just too loud. My flowmaster on the stock exhaust was much quieter but I felt it could be a possible restriction at 500+ rwhp. I did see a 2psi boost increase when going from the flowmaster muffler on the stock exhaust to the DPPI 4" exhaust.

Wow clear as mud. Ok so in the NW we don't use salt on the roads so that is not a prob. I will keep the truck about 4-5yrs and do about 30k a year. SS 304 is better grade than ss409 right?

T-304 is better than T-409. I'm just wondering what the #304 and #409 relate to. So many particles of this in this for so much of that for that. They have to stand for something. It's a tech question, no less. I guess only people that actually work with steel day in and day out would know.

I'll try to make things muddier:


Aluminized will generally not rust so long as the coating isn't compromised. Again, it is much like galvanizing. The diesel doesn't make harmful acids and mucho water like a gasser.


409 SS will rust fairly quickly, BUT it's not that festering, blistering crap that a mild steel will form. It will last many years, it just won't be pretty.


304SS needs something pretty nasty to hurt it, and is much like your kitchen sink...








Mac would be the one to ask if he was ever able to maintain cleanliness or of his "fair weather" truck eventually rusted the exhaust.





I know SoCaldmax had his Gibson system turn ugly...

Thanks Kennedy that did help some. Guess I need to try and find some local people on here so I can hear the exhaust note.

T-304 is better than T-409. I'm just wondering what the #304 and #409 relate to. So many particles of this in this for so much of that for that. They have to stand for something. It's a tech question, no less. I guess only people that actually work with steel day in and day out would know.








IIRC, 304 is steel with chromium and nickle in it. 409 is steel with chromium and titanium in it.

Thanks Kennedy that did help some. Guess I need to try and find some local people on here so I can hear the exhaust note.





Good idea! Sound can be a VERY subjective thing...

Here is some information on the various types of materials that are being discussed here. This information comes from a report written by our in-house materials expert based on multiple sources that he researched. This information refers primarily to carbon steel, aluminized, 409 stainless and 304 stainless as used in exhaust systems.

All steel material originates from carbon and starts out as carbon steel. As various other types of material are added the carbon content is diluted and alloys are formed. Regardless of the alloy, a coating of aluminum can be applied to the material (in tube form the aluminum coating is both inside the pipe and outside) and is what we call aluminized. Although Aluminized stainless steels are available, for the purposes of this discussion, aluminized will refer to a coated carbon steel.

Stainless steel is made from regular carbon steel by the addition of Nickel and Chromium. The Nickel and Chromium combine with the iron base to make it more resistant to corrosion. Without increased amounts of Nickel and Chromium, Carbon steel is more susceptible to corrosion than stainless steel.

The various grades of ferritic stainless steel (400 series) typically contain small amounts of Nickel and Chromium. This allows ferritic stainless steel to be corrosion resistant, but not to the extent that austenitic stainless steels (300 series) are.

Because austenitic stainless steel contains higher levels of Nickel and Chromium as compared to ferritic types, austenitic stainless steel is more corrosion resistant than ferritic types.

T-409 T-304

There's a lot of 6.5's (even in WI) running around with the OE aluminized exhaust yet. The soot inside keeps them from getting eaten. Mostly depends on if the vehicle is short hopped or driven long enough to burn off the moisture. For gas engines I'd say 3-3.5 years is often stretching it.





Just had a 1996 6.5 in here yesterday with the original exhaust, and have removed several perfectly functioning '94 era systems...

Peter:


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif


WOW! Thanks for the answer. That's about everything anyone could want to know about T-409.

THANKS............http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

Can you tell me who makes the TTS exhaust system?

PeterT,


Thanks for the class. It basically helps me to better understand what I had found out about exhaust systems, and the pros and cons of one stainless versus the other.


I also like the CAT back system I wound up buying from you guys...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

Can you tell me who makes the TTS exhaust system?


http://www.ttspowersystems.com/exhaust_gmdiesel.htm