Hey, I hate to say it but I have seen two different Powerstrokes and man they haul and sound GREAT, it's like a jet plane sitting next to you. I hear their torq shift tranny is good too ? anyone have one as a work truck? Maybe my school will get some and we can see how great they really are.


P.S. Why doesn't GM makes something like the King Ranch package for our trucks?

Lenny

MC 31, seems now that they got the 1st year glitches out of them they are really startin to kick some a$$ 1st year probs. included warm idle flucuation, diesel in the crankcase due to faulty run of injectors, and turbo lag. these were 90% of the problems people were complaining about. Now, new injectors are out (C95's) latest and greatest reflash is out (warm idle romp is gone) and it also got the turbo to spool up around 1400 rpm range. Stock dyno #'s are in the 285-295 HP range on #2 only as reported on thedieselstop.com

Dshiftff, we'll see if those numbers are right once you get yours, let me know so we can put it on the rollers.

yep, 8.1, will make a trip with it, there saying the 10th for delivery still. did you run yours the other day or just went up for the ride? gotta recruit some more f*rd guys here. later...

Dshiftff, just went up for the ride, gets mighty boring not being able to do anything.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif

Quote snippets (w/o permission) from the Jan '04 Peterson's 4x4 magazine:

"According to a recent story in Automotive News, Ford has faced some serious problems with its 6.0L PowerStroke diesel V-8, problems so severe that the company launched a recall of more than 66,000 trucks and has had to buy some 500 trucks back from disgruntled owners...The trouble seemed to arise from some faulty fuel injectors installed in the engines durin the first 5 months of production...Ford also found problems with the engine's turbocharger and its computer management software..."


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs%20Down.gif


Even more happy I got a Duramax now.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/733_poke2.gif


--Rob
Edited by: ryeguy

Been using a 2004 F350 to haul 24k a day for the past 2 weeks now and I am very happy with it. The 6.0L is doing just fine and it's completely stock.


I sold my 2004 Duramax 2500HD because it was having a hard time staying in my garage rather then the dealers. It was returned under the "lemon law." Owned it for 60 days and it was in the shop 18 times and GM still can't say what was wrong with it. Just the "service engine soon" light kept coming on and there was no reason for it according to them.


Not the only one to have an issue with the service engine soon light on the Isuzu either. Guess just having the GM emblem on it is enough to make it junk. They tried at least by putting an Isuzu motor and Allison tranny in it. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


Now before anyone blows a gasket, they are both good vehicles I have just had less issues with Ford diesels then the GM's.

I don't recall the check engine light being a common problem on these forums.

Did you check the engine? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif

There are lemons in every crowd..... of trucks that is.

I have to make the obvious distinction between a couple of lemons making it out of production and a 500 truck buyback.


I regularly read diesel truck forums and it's rare to hear about Dmax owners having their vehicles bought back. On the otherhand, Ford websites have much discussion about problems leading to that. I have confidence Ford will eventually get 6.0L problems behind them, and maybe it's already begun to happen.Edited by: Ray403Dmax

I have a buddy who (no lye) had 2 count thwm 2 trucks bought back by ford. No longer a ford lover he went with a new dodge cummins and loves it. I told him he would have no problems with the engine at least. Dodge does have the most reliable diesel out thier and probly always will.

The Dmax engine is about 20 years old. Isuzu has been using them since the early 80's in their delivery trucks. The 6.0L is only 3 years old and only 2 years now has it been on the market for mass use. The only thing GM on a Dmax is the body and logo. Who makes the tranny? Who makes the engine?


I have out hauled 2 Dmaxs that were stock with my stock 6.0L. This was with a 24ft gooseneck trailer and 2 Hyster 50's on it. Each lift weighs just shy of 10k. Not for sure of the weight of the trailer.


This was a timed test going west on Hwy 34 for a 3-mile stretch in CO. Now keep in mind these were an '03 and '04 Dmax's 2500HD and a F350 all 4x4's all crew cabs short boxes. This is a real life test done on the same day pulling the exact same trailer. None of these trucks were dually's.


I am not saying the Dmax is a bad truck, because it's not, but don't try to tell me GM did anymore then put some older parts on their frame. Let's give some credit where credit is due. Say to Isuzu and Allison and IH. As for the Cummings engine who owns part of that company?


If we want to toss mud we can all day long and if you want to see who has the best truck look at the guy that put the most money into it. He or she with the most money wins. That's why I made a strict completely stock comparison. With vehicles as close to the same as possible.


The Dmax does ride better, but I prefer my binder.

It's Cummins, and I hope you aren't insinuating that old myth about Ford owning part of Cummins. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Now answer the Dmax question about how old that engine is and what of the Dmax is truly GM. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

I could be wrong but I lived in Dayton, OH when they first developed the Dmax with Isuzu and that's the way it was billed in the newspapers and on the news. The new Dmax was jointly developed by GM and Isuzu at the diesel building behind the Blazer assembly plant.

The Duramax engine family is the result of a joint venture (DMAX Ltd.) between GM and Isuzu Motors. GM's relationship with Isuzu began in 1971 and was strengthened in 1997 when GM announced that Isuzu would develop diesel engines for GM. Because of Isuzu's expertise in commercial vehicles and diesel engines, the company plays an important role in GM's global strategy. Isuzu is a world leader in diesel engine design and development, and has produced more than 60 million diesel engines in the past six decades.


The Duramax Diesel family is domestically sourced, and is produced in a brand-new DMAX, Ltd. facility in Moraine, Ohio. -GM

As was said the Dmax is an Isuzu that GM merely looks at the blueprints of and slaps together. So, the Dmax is only GM by assembly and body?


Come on guys have some fun here.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

GM at this time owns at least 80% of the DMAX venture. GM owns 100% of the enginering in Japan. This comes from an enginer friend that I worked with here at Saturn. He is now assigned to DMAX in Japan with enginering.


At the plant in Moraine, the workers are in the union (ALF/CIO), they do all the machining on the blocks, cranks, and heads. They heat treat and nitrite the crank at the plant. Blocks and I (think cranks) come as castings from Germany, and the heads mostly came from Japan, but some that I saw 2 years ago was from California.


Now is the question: How much of International Harvester/Navistar does Ford own, and how much of Cummings does Daimler/Chrysler own?


Know this is off topic, Just Having fun http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif.Edited by: cmadmaxman

GM can own all they want of the company the final product is still an Isuzu with a GM emblem on it. How much of Allison does GM own?


Proud to say I am driving a Binder rather then Isuzu. As far as where the product is cast and assembled that doesn't matter too much to me. The product is still almost 20 years old with improvements made to it over that time span and it's still from the Jap drawing boards.


That helps to explain the 12k twc. Even with a dually.


Still having fun here. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif Almost too much of it.

BIRDOFPREY97- Correct me if i'm wrong, but the last i heard and seen, Ford or should i say Internationals 6.0L did not have common rail injection???? Even Cummins changed to common rail.......Ford is still in the 60's man. When they finally decide to go common rail, which rumor has it in a couple of years, they will finally be up to todays technology which by then will be old news.


No doubt the 6.0 pulls better in a stock configuration, but it also has more hp and trq stock. We'll see how it does against the 04' dmax(more trq), again not an apple to apple comparison though.I would like to see both motors with exact numbers pull the exact load and i'll bet there neck and neck. Until then, its all hearsay. Later Jeremyhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

The Higher Torq Dmax I believe has the same Turbo as the 6.0 Ford. Correct me if I am wrong please.


Who cares how the fuel works as long as it does?


When the Dmax becomes more of a GM product then Isuzu then the Bowtie will deserve to be on it. In my veiw.

Not sure on the turbo being the same, but by the sounds they are very similar.


Who cares if GM doesn't 100% make the dmax, does Ford or Dodge 100% make an International or Cummins??? I'll answer that for ya, NO. Non of the big 3 make a diesel motor for there own brand. Thats fine with me, leave the motor building to someone that does it full time(izuzu, cummins, international) and knows what the hell they are doing. Everybody has there specialty. As far as i'm concerned i don't want gm screwing with any more diesel motors as we all know what happened with the 6.5 and 6.2's. Later Jeremy

It's not a matter of just the motor with the GM's it's the tranny also. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


The only GM parts on the pick up are body and possible the axles.

You are correct, but the way i see it is, they sub out most of the parts to a company that strictly builds that component and knows(should) it inside and out and its there specialty.


Let me put it this way, would you let a carpenter build you a house from the ground up???? Concrete work, electrical, plumbing, hvac, drywall etc. etc.??? No, not saying they couldn't do it, but its gonna be done more efficient and done properly with the right profession doing what he/she does best. Thats where i come in, Contractor sets everybody that does his/her job the best up and gets the job done correct and near perfect as human can get. Same as GM, they are the Contractor putting all the necessary parts built by component manufacture together. In the end the Contractor either gets all the praise, or gets b!tched at. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif Later Jeremy

I agree, that's why I call them Isuzu's...........http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif





Giving credit where credit is due.

I agree with the design of the Duramax. If Isuzu was not involved it would not be the engine that it is. Just stating some of the stuff I saw and have heard about.


Allison not GM, take a look:


The 1980s were watershed years for the division, then known as Detroit Diesel Allison. In 1987, GM renamed the company Allison Transmission Division of General Motors. In the same year, the division sold a record 73,976 automatics.


And today the site says "Allison Transmission, General Motors Corp."


http://www.allisontransmission.com/


http://www.allisontransmission.com/images/company/history_clevelandplant.gif


Allison Transmission, a part of General Motors' Powertrain division, leads the world in the design, manufacture and sales of medium-and heavy-duty automatic transmissions for trucks, buses, off-road and military vehicles and RVs.Edited by: cmadmaxman

Hence my 1985 Front clip, 1987 Cab, 1 ton Chevy with the 4 Cycl Detroit and Allison Tranny. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

The Dmax engine is about 20 years old. Isuzu has been using them since the early 80's in their delivery trucks.





Correction: the Duramax motor is BRAND NEW for Chevy. The heads and other parts were designed in partnership with Isuzu. Isuzu's truck motors are inline 6, just like the Cummins and just like all the big truck engines.

I got an odd piece to put in but why didn't gm leave the diesel a inline six? I know all the big trucks are even the cummins is. Wouldn't it be better at building torque which is what the diesel is all about? If i'm correct in what i've been told the cummins gets the best mileage and is the strongest diesel. Wouldn't the others think of going to a inline and fallow suit?

I guess the body, frame, interior, trans and they do own the company that makes the engine, would make the GM truck more than just an emblem on someone elses truck. Ford doesn't own the company that makes their engine, so I guess you need to call it an International instead of Ford. Despite your ignorance BirdofPrey97, the Dmax was a new engine when it came in the 01 GM trucks. I'd be willing to bet you never owned any GM truck ever. If you believe the engine was a 20 year old design, then why would you have bought one to begin with. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gif

I have out hauled 2 Dmaxs that were stock with my stock 6.0L. This was with a 24ft gooseneck trailer and 2 Hyster 50's on it. Each lift weighs just shy of 10k. Not for sure of the weight of the trailer.


This was a timed test going west on Hwy 34 for a 3-mile stretch in CO. Now keep in mind these were an '03 and '04 Dmax's 2500HD and a F350 all 4x4's all crew cabs short boxes. This is a real life test done on the same day pulling the exact same trailer. None of these trucks were dually's.





What rear end ratio does the 6.0L Ford use. My Dmax has a 373, just want to compare apples to apples.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

3.73 on my 6.0L Hope it helps.

I got an odd piece to put in but why didn't gm leave the diesel a inline six? I know all the big trucks are even the cummins is. Wouldn't it be better at building torque which is what the diesel is all about? If i'm correct in what i've been told the cummins gets the best mileage and is the strongest diesel. Wouldn't the others think of going to a inline and fallow suit?





My thoughts on this question: the Inline design is without doubt better for longevity and torque production (the Cummins 5.9 has THREE TIMES the main & rod bearing surface area that a 7.3 Powerstroke - hence the greater longevity). However, the pitfalls of an inline engine are (1) difficulty fitting into an engine compartment along with a radiator, large intercooler, A/C cnodenser, and tranny cooler; (2) it does not warm up nearly as quickly as a V-block design.


All engines have their pro's and con's; remember that. As for the age of an engine design, the Cummins 5.9 is 25+ years old - each new "design" is really just a slight improvement over the previous one. I'd rather have an engine improved by "evolution" - not "revolution" - I'm happy with my cummins truck, it's pushing 240,000 miles and NEVER has had a single problem with the engine. I've replaced a lift pump once ($125). -scott

Anyone ever heard of GM having a good inline 6? Last one I remember was in my 54 1 ton and I believe it was a 235 ci.


I almost bought a Dodge, but we have a fleight of 278 Dodge trucks and every diesel has had to have the tranny worked on at or before 100k. Dodge has never had a good drivetrain that I can remember. They have always relied on Dana. My 76 Ramcharger with a 440 was a fun truck, but the 747A tranny would always snap the reverse band which was also the 1st gear band. The Dana front and rear axle were nice though.


My 85 F350 Diesel was a piece of $hit though. It didn't have a turbo and it would slow way down to 35mph on hills, but you couldn't stop it. It would hold 35mph at least. LOL


Oh how evolution helps!!!!

I like this guy who talks about his test of pulling some 24ft trailer in CO. One test proves nothing!! Having owned 4 fords 4 dodges and 4 GM's over the past 20 Years I think i have some insight into what these trucks are really about. Lets start with the dodges. All four where of the cummins engine type. All engines ran very good with good fuel economy 15 to 21 mpg. The down side was the dodge truck around the engine. Poor paint cheap interior road bad and handle poor to be genrous. Drive train was very good though never broke in any of the trucks. The trucks model years were 1995 1996 1999 and 2001. The 2001 had a bad habit of letting engine blow by into the Cab if you set at a stop light too long. Other than that they preformed there function. Now lets talk about the Fords. 1983 6.9 F250 4x4. I have to say this was the best truck out of all the fords. It made 17mpg "the best out of the Ford bunch" Never failed other then some injection pump problems that were taken care of under warranty. Oh yea the tail gate was cheap tinny junk and the front End was always "sagging" I guess that's why they went back to the straight axle. Next was a 1995 Power stroke F250 4x4. This was a nightmare. Loved it at first nothing ever ran that hard in a 3/4 ton truck to that point in time. I won't even go into all the trouble with that truck. Engine, Transmission, cooling system, electrical, it just never ended we put up with it for four years, then we got the first 1999 Super duty. Same story different truck, other then the straight Axle didn't sag but road like a 1977 chevy 4x4 3/4 ton truck rough! Again problems problems and more problems. There was also a 1988 with the old 7.3. this was a very good truck. Pulled well and didn't break. I really liked this truck other than eating glow plugs all the time and it made the worst fuel mileage of all the trucks. In its defense it had the C6 with 4:10 gears so it was never going to be great. Last but not least the GM products. 82 6.2 3/4 4x4. No real problems great mileage but dont try to pull anything just plain gutless. Geat for running around but not for pulling. Road rough bad paint. 1993 3/4 4x4 6.5 turbo. Big improvement over 6.2 but not the puller like a dodge or a ford at the time. Very reliable never did go to the shop in 150,000 miles that was very impressive to me. Fuel mileage was like a dodge about the 15 to 18 mpg, way better then the 11-14 the fords were getting. Drove and road the best of all of them and overall quality was better also. Paint, body front end ride just flat had the others beat. Just couldn't use it to pull the very heavy loads for long distance. It would tend to heat up. 2003 durmax is the latest truck. So far it has not had to go to the shopin its first 33,000 miles. Ride is very good in fact the best so far. Any more, as far a power goes all of them have more than what i need so i think fighting about what out pulls what is foolish. Having a Pulling tractor I know you can get any amount of power out of the dodge ford or chevy that you think you need so stop talking about that. The important thing is what are you using the truck for? Is it reliable? What did it cost you to buy it? What does it cost you to keep it?? What kind of resale will it have?? One thing you can count on is all things change, Right now there is no doubt GM is on top with the duramax allison combo. But just like I said that will change, Some one will make one that rides better or makes better mileage or has some new feature that we all have to have. Remember if everyone just bought one brand, nothing would drive improvements or keep prices in check. I think prices are too high now but any consumer will always say that.

(applauding)

HELLO people,
im new to this website, i didnt think there would be a forum just for diesels. But anyways im a 18 year old kid in houston driving a 2003 f250 king ranch 6.0 (ill post pics later) but so far its been pretty good. Ive had to take it back to the dealership for really really rough idle starts and for a recall. Other than that ive had no problem with it and ive had it for a year. I dont use it to haul anything at all, ive never hauled anything in it and i drive it to school and back home every day i only have 9000 miles in it since JAN 03 or December 02 dont remember. I use it mostly to show off, not loud in the inside but really loud in the outside. I like diesels for some reason and preferred the Ford Diesel from the Escalade or the Harley davidson f150. Well if anyone has any questions ill be happy to answer them... and why isnt there a board for the 6.0 engine???

That would be the www.thedieselstop.com (http://www.thedieselstop.com) they seem good at answering problems that come up on the 6.0 which keeps them pretty busy.