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Old 01-12-2013, 08:32 PM   #21 (permalink)
a bear
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Knocking on 300K running 10oz.Walmart 2 stroke oil per 30 gals. at every fill up. Do you think I got my extra 10K yet?? Balance rates are perfect and she purrs like a kitten.. Been doing this since the introduction of HPCR diesels.. You think maybe I should stop and listen to what GM thinks?
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:16 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by a bear View Post
Knocking on 300K running 10oz.Walmart 2 stroke oil per 30 gals. at every fill up. Do you think I got my extra 10K yet?? Balance rates are perfect and she purrs like a kitten.. Been doing this since the introduction of HPCR diesels.. You think maybe I should stop and listen to what GM thinks?
Keep purring, abear!
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:23 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tom S. View Post
I'll play your game. Has it been proved that adding 2 cycle oil to the fuel increases injector life? The people that have the biggest stake in this game is the manufacturers. If the product doesn't last or perform adequately, chances are they lose you as a customer. There's a reason why they don't recommend additives, and it has nothing to do with some conspiracy to make you buy more injectors. It's because it's a waste of their customers' money, and in the case of some additives, can actually cause damage. It's not broke - stop trying to fix it.
None of these actions have been proven, but there are those of us that know that the ULSD has less lubrication than the previous LSD and by adding a lubricant to the fuel, we stand a chance of reducing the chance of a future problem. The Mfg's couldn't care less about our trucks after the warranty runs out. Their build strategies are not for the benefit of the customer. You fuel your truck, and I'll fuel mine. The OP was asking what type and how much 2-stroke to add. Not, whether or not to add it.
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:29 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SixPak View Post
None of these actions have been proven, but there are those of us that know that the ULSD has less lubrication than the previous LSD and by adding a lubricant to the fuel, we stand a chance of reducing the chance of a future problem. The Mfg's couldn't care less about our trucks after the warranty runs out. Their build strategies are not for the benefit of the customer. You fuel your truck, and I'll fuel mine. The OP was asking what type and how much 2-stroke to add. Not, whether or not to add it.

I agree and thats why I run it in my LML too. 1 litre added every tank.
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:22 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SixPak View Post
None of these actions have been proven, but there are those of us that know that the ULSD has less lubrication than the previous LSD and by adding a lubricant to the fuel, we stand a chance of reducing the chance of a future problem. The Mfg's couldn't care less about our trucks after the warranty runs out. Their build strategies are not for the benefit of the customer. You fuel your truck, and I'll fuel mine. The OP was asking what type and how much 2-stroke to add. Not, whether or not to add it.
Since I worked for one of those manufacturers for nearly 40 years, I know first hand you are wrong. They want you to come back and buy another vehicle when you decide you want/need one, and selling you one that doesn't last is counter productive. If you're logic was correct, they'd still come with 12 month warranties.
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:55 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Anyone who is old enough or had a diesel long enough to remember regular diesel back in the day knows our trucks ran better on it. What about Cetane? Isn't it also an important factor? I run Power service Diesel Kleen in my tank because I miss the feeling of old diesel.

FWIW the argument hasn't been proven either way on the 2stroke! Consider this though, GM has an injector cleaner sold @ parts counters all over America. IT HAS been proven to clean the injectors and get balance rates on our CRs back within spec. Can't blame the guys for trying to do the same thing without the dealer price tag.
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Old 01-13-2013, 01:57 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I got some Super Tech 2 stroke oil brand at Walmart today and want to try it so should I put in 8oz or 16oz for my 26 gallon tank ?
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:38 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I agree with you. Even if it was proven to have minor benefit, and gets you an extra 10,000 miles so you need new injectors at 200,000 instead of 190,000, it's ended up costing you more in the long run.

Let's do some math. If your truck averages 15mpg, in 200,000 miles, you will go through 13,333 gallons of fuel. If, as SixPak suggests, you buy the oil at Walmart for $12 a gallon and treat the fuel at a ratio of 16 oz per 25 gallons, that equates to 8 treatments or $1.50 per treatment. Now divide the 13,333 gallons by 25 to determine the number of treatments needed and you have 533.32, which when multiplied by the cost per treatment comes out to $799.98. That means you spent $800 to get an extra 10,000 miles out of the injectors, but you're going to have to replace them anyway.

However all that math goes out the window when you consider that no one has proven that this treatment works. It's possible it could in fact have a detrimental effect either to the injectors or another part of the fuel system/engine. I figure if no manufacturer recommends it, that's reason enough for me not to.
This post is not what I would consider accurate... From the speculated (10K) miles, fixed dilution rate and the math itself. Sorry Tom but it is what it is and you are not taking everything into account...

1. Where did the 10K added injector life come from? (who dreamed up that number?)
2. 16oz./ 25 gals is a variable concentration. Not everyone uses that much oil.
3. You didn't account for the fact that 2 stroke oil is a burnable volume of the fuel. It takes up room in the tank and it provides basically the same BTU as diesel.. This in itself makes a large difference in the net cost.

By my math and based on the concentration I use my cost is about $267 per 200K (considering the 2 stroke oil BTU value of 138K). Rough injector cost is +- $33 per 1,000 miles going by past replacement averages of about 150K. Soooo, with that said I would need to go an extra 8,000 miles on my injectors to cover the $267 per 200K cost of the 2 stroke oil.
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:59 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by a bear View Post
This post is not what I would consider accurate... From the speculated (10K) miles, fixed dilution rate and the math itself. Sorry Tom but it is what it is and you are not taking everything into account...

1. Where did the 10K added injector life come from? (who dreamed up that number?)
2. 16oz./ 25 gals is a variable concentration. Not everyone uses that much oil.
3. You didn't account for the fact that 2 stroke oil is a burnable volume of the fuel. It takes up room in the tank and it provides basically the same BTU as diesel.. This in itself makes a large difference in the net cost.

By my math and based on the concentration I use my cost is about $267 per 200K (considering the 2 stroke oil BTU value of 138K). Rough injector cost is +- $33 per 1,000 miles going by past replacement averages of about 150K. Soooo, with that said I would need to go an extra 8,000 miles on my injectors to cover the $267 per 200K cost of the 2 stroke oil.
I suggest you re-read the post:

"I agree with you. Even if it was proven to have minor benefit, and gets you an extra 10,000 miles so you need new injectors at 200,000 instead of 190,000, it's ended up costing you more in the long run."

Please note the bold text. My statement is if it was proven - which it has not been. For all we know, adding 2 cycle may actually be detrimental. As for the math, it is 100% accurate - based upon someone else's post. If his oil useage is more than you use, talk to him, not me. I don't add any oil.
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Old 01-14-2013, 12:06 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom S. View Post
I suggest you re-read the post:

"I agree with you. Even if it was proven to have minor benefit, and gets you an extra 10,000 miles so you need new injectors at 200,000 instead of 190,000, it's ended up costing you more in the long run."

Please note the bold text. My statement is if it was proven - which it has not been. For all we know, adding 2 cycle may actually be detrimental. As for the math, it is 100% accurate - based upon someone else's post. If his oil useage is more than you use, talk to him, not me. I don't add any oil.
OK, I now see where the 10K was an assumption.

However, in the mathematical scheme of things (going by the 16oz./25 gal. treatment rate) the fueling value of the 2 stroke oil works out to roughly $252.66. So if you subtract that amount from 799.98 you come up with a net treatment cost of 547.32 or .04 cents per gallon of treated fuel. Now if you figure the average injector cost (guesstimate) of $33 per 1,000 miles based on a 150K life span you would have to extend your injector life by only 16K miles to break even. If you use a 2 stroke oil ratio closer to what I use (about 8oz./25 gal) you would have to extend injector life by 8K miles to break even.

Also, to touch on what someone said about the detrimental effect of burning oil in a diesel, they need to realize that middle distillate (diesel) is oil. Thatís why diesels are considered oil burners. Couple that with the fact that two stroke oil is designed to lubricate and burn at lower combustion temperatures than what we have and I would bet my paycheck that there are no negative effects from itís use in a diesel engine. Can I prove thatÖ No I canítÖ. All I know is that after weighing things out and crushing the numbers I easily decided to treat my fuel with two stroke oil nearly 300K miles ago. As I stated earlier my injectors are healthy and going strong. Can I say for sure this is from the 2 stroke oil? No I canítÖ But nor can anyone say that it isn't.
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