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Maintenance & Fluids Discuss products, techniques, intervals, and fluids for maintaining your GM truck including oil and oil additives, fuel and fuel additives, alternative fuels (Bio-D, SVO, WVO), filters, grease, and maintenance specific tools.

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Old 08-30-2007, 11:41 PM   #1 (permalink)
SPICER
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Lubricity Additive Study Discussion

Nick has asked that I bring the discussion to a new thread. This way the original thread and report can be permanantly archived in the Sticky's. So, carry on! Same discussion under a new title! SPICER

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File Type: pdf Copy of Diesel fuel additive version 3.pdf (130.7 KB, 33677 views)
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Old 08-31-2007, 02:47 PM   #2 (permalink)
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To anyone who would like to forward this data to other sites, etc. Please send the above PDF version, not the one in the original post by me. This one has all of the recent updates and changes. Thank You! Arlen Spicer.

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Old 08-31-2007, 04:52 PM   #3 (permalink)
Victory Red
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well as the first response to this thread, one like everyone else good job Arlen(btw i need those 2 trees down if you have some time send me a $$).

Also, I'm really bummed out, if not PO'd that my FPPF 'Lubricity plus Fuel Power' fared so poorly. I bought 5 gallons of this stuff on sale and it's worse that using no addivtive at all.

I'd like to convince myself that your sample was a bad batch
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Old 08-31-2007, 06:21 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I understood it was OK to ad 2-cycle oil at the rate of 32 oz. per 26 gal. tank. The test showed it was added at 16 oz. My question is: Does this double the lubricity performance? If so, the 2-cycle lubricity numbers would be much higher in the ranking. I have been using at this ratio for several months and had no problems.
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Old 08-31-2007, 08:08 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Hi Spicer, great work on the study. New member here and I think this is going to really open up the debate on lubricity, etc.

I read the entire lubricity posts (kinda seeing double right now but I'm not sure I saw the answer to this and if you can ask the lab guys I'd appreciate it.

1. How do the additives already put in the ULSD react with the aftermarket or homebrew additives in your study? Are there any thoughts about this from the petrochemical specialists on this board? Would we see the same reduction in wear from bio diesel or the opti lube product if the ULSD had not been virgin? In other words, would the bio knock down the scar reading the same huge amount or would the existing additve package allow the bio diesel to lubricate even at a lower wear scar reading?

2. Can the additives that are suppose to be added to the ULSD make a over the counter or homebrew additive work better than what we saw with the virgin ULSD?

3. On the opposite end, can the ULSD additives react adversly with the over the counter or homebrew additives we ad in?

Hope this all makes sense.

Again, thanks for the effort in this study...it really was eye opening.

Cheers,
5150 H1
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Old 08-31-2007, 08:22 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Been using Primrose 405 for over 120,000 miles over two different vehicles, both Bosch HPCR.

NO FUEL SYSTEM ISSUES

I love the stuff.

George of http://www.avlube.com/addiga.html is very very knowledgeable and was one of the first to step up and teach everyone about diesel fuel and how to keep it 100%
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Old 08-31-2007, 11:53 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QLCsteve;1975577;
I understood it was OK to ad 2-cycle oil at the rate of 32 oz. per 26 gal. tank. The test showed it was added at 16 oz. My question is: Does this double the lubricity performance? If so, the 2-cycle lubricity numbers would be much higher in the ranking. I have been using at this ratio for several months and had no problems.
The way I understand it, it is impossible to know. Sometimes a double dose shows a slight improvement over a single dose, sometimes a big improvement. It all depends on the so called lubricty saturation point of the particular additive in a particular fuel. And without lab work, it is a guess. SPICER
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Old 08-31-2007, 11:58 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5150 H1;1975734;
Hi Spicer, great work on the study. New member here and I think this is going to really open up the debate on lubricity, etc.

I read the entire lubricity posts (kinda seeing double right now but I'm not sure I saw the answer to this and if you can ask the lab guys I'd appreciate it.

1. How do the additives already put in the ULSD react with the aftermarket or homebrew additives in your study? Are there any thoughts about this from the petrochemical specialists on this board? Would we see the same reduction in wear from bio diesel or the opti lube product if the ULSD had not been virgin? In other words, would the bio knock down the scar reading the same huge amount or would the existing additve package allow the bio diesel to lubricate even at a lower wear scar reading?

2. Can the additives that are suppose to be added to the ULSD make a over the counter or homebrew additive work better than what we saw with the virgin ULSD?

3. On the opposite end, can the ULSD additives react adversly with the over the counter or homebrew additives we ad in?

Hope this all makes sense.

Again, thanks for the effort in this study...it really was eye opening.

Cheers,
5150 H1
The way I understand it, bio prettty much always works. There are some definite instances of additives not working well together, but I have no details on this. Again, probably a hit or miss propostion. On the other hand, they can work synergistically. I would like to see more info and data on this, but it is beyond the scope of my work and over my head. SPICER
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Old 09-01-2007, 07:02 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I have used the Stanadyne Performance and Power Service Diesel Kleen for years in my 6.5 TD and now in my LBZ. I'm wondering if there products that were designed for use with "old" diesel fuel formula and not not the new Ultra Low Sulfur had different goals ? Now that most all (on road) Diesel is Ultra Low Sulfur (primary purpose of the sulfur was lubrication) we will probably see Stanadyne and the other Diesel additive company's start to change their focus. For years I was concerned with preventing algae, dissipating water, preventing gelling in winters(in VT) and hell if you can add some cetane at the same time to increase power that was all that mattered, I never thought (or worried about) about lubrication was it an issue before Ultra Low Sulfur fuel? And to date (at least till 2006) GM does not recommend any diesel additives {obviously most of us think we know better } Unfortunately I live in New England where no one carrys Bio Diesel, so it looks like I have to rethink my Diesel additive needs. As a completely neutral party to any previous gripes about testing , It would be a more "scientific" if a random sample of Opti Lube XPD that was purchased by a "John Doe" and tested again. It would be nice to be able to purchase one additive to cure all of our Diesel fuel concerns instead of mixing up our own cocktails and witches brew ;-)
And Thanks to all who took the time, effort, $ etc to make make the study happen. {anyone care to scientifically study chips and programmers for fuel economy and power ;-) next}
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Old 09-01-2007, 09:13 PM   #10 (permalink)
RayMich
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Hey SPICER,

I recently noticed that Stanadyne must have changed their additives to be compatible with ULSD.

When I received my recent purchase, I noticed that now they have a bright yellow notice with black letters that states
Formulated for
ULTRA LOW SULFUR
So I was wondering if the Stanadyne bottles you received for the test were the old formula or the new formula.

You can check out their new labels HERE.

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