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Maintenance & Fluids Discuss products, techniques, intervals, and fluids for maintaining your GM truck including oil and oil additives, fuel and fuel additives, alternative fuels (Bio-D, SVO, WVO), filters, grease, and maintenance specific tools.

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Old 08-26-2007, 07:58 PM   #41 (permalink)
Barkbuster
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Thanks for your hard work. I`m bummed Howe`s diesel treat wasn`t tested since I used it thru the winter and ran out last month. So I tried Howe`s meaner kleaner at their minimum treat ratio that was tested and it did not do so good, and this bottle will last till it gets cold. Looks like I`ll be using something else this winter, and also up the dose a bit till its gone. Hopefully the fuel we buy at the pumps is already close and my truck has benefited with the extra additive I have used since USLD has arrived.

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Old 08-26-2007, 08:13 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Soooooo glad you tested BIO, Spicer. So as a lubricity additive it would be almost free. If a gallon of BIO is only 50 cents more a gallon than #2, it would "really" only cost you $1 to treat 100 gallons. After all you would be buying 2 more gallons of #2 to make the same volume anyway! Know what I'm getting at? Am I explaining my wierd thoughts right?

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Old 08-26-2007, 09:33 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guybb3;1964936;
Soooooo glad you tested BIO, Spicer. So as a lubricity additive it would be almost free. If a gallon of BIO is only 50 cents more a gallon than #2, it would "really" only cost you $1 to treat 100 gallons. After all you would be buying 2 more gallons of #2 to make the same volume anyway! Know what I'm getting at? Am I explaining my wierd thoughts right?
According to Steve Westbrook at SwRI, The lubricity benefit of biodiesel is pretty much maximized at 2%. Up to 4% gives a SLIGHT increase over 2%, but we are talking sharply diminishing returns. He even offered up that most of the benefit seen at 2% would also be seen at as little as 0.5%. This is nice to know if you are thinking of using bio as a lubricity additive. The need for 100%, 20%, or even 5% bio really isn't at all necessary from a lubricity standpoint.

This answers another recent post. Someone wanted to know if the benefit of additives is cumulative. In other words, add an additive with benefit 300 microns to bio, do you get a crazy low wear scar number. The answer is NO. There is a saturation point. More additive may improve HFRR to a point and then it stops. Adding 3+3 may only equal 3.2. SPICER
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Old 08-26-2007, 09:36 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blksmok;1964359;
One question about this. What level of confidence do you have that the product they sent you to test is what they actually decided to produce and release as a consumer available product? I'm wondering since it was "experimental" at time of test, if the final product chemical makeup was still TBD.
BTW, thanks for all the hard work.
This is a question for them. I have no way of knowing. SPICER
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Old 08-26-2007, 09:40 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fingers;1964596;
Curious if any of these additives have interactions with fuel supplied lubricants and/or rely on their presence to work.

That is, it would be interesting to know how some of these work with treated fuel. Does a 316 additive improvement stack with a fuel's 200?

Does alcohol content invalidate the HFRR test or does it increase the wear using HFRR and real world in a similar fashion?

Oh, and Thank You for your efforts.
According to Steve Westbrook, it can cause poor performance in an HFRR test. Real world? I don't know. Alcohol is very dry and probably not good for the system. It is usually treated as taboo, hence the effort by some to label the product as "Alcohol Free". Alcohol is a great emulsifier, but there are other emulsifiers out there. Do they have similar effects on HFRR? I will ask Steve. SPICER
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Old 08-26-2007, 09:43 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradyghost;1964610;
Good job on the study! TYVM

Is there any copyright on the test?

Can I make a copy and hang it in my Biodiesel Production facility?

I have alot of customers who always ask what is the best additive and I guess I been telling them correctly!
As long as you are not selling the data, sure. The info should probably be presented as a complete document, not just bits and pieces. This prevents the tendency to selectively quote a study. Thanks for asking. SPICER
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Old 08-26-2007, 09:54 PM   #47 (permalink)
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This test may not answer ALL of our questions, but it definitely sets a train of thought going. I would like to see some manufacturers kick in again, and test a batch of normal ULSD from a couple different places, or see if we can find out WHAT lubricant packages are being added.

I'm rethinking my additive choices again. Bio-D is unobtainable for me, Opti-Lube I'd have to special order, so I'd have to go with 2 stroke still.
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Old 08-26-2007, 10:28 PM   #48 (permalink)
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I am not so sure the Bio diesel is diminished past 2%. I did my own research on the fuel and I remember a CAT study that showed that with the old 500ppm fuel most of the gains were had by 5%.

With the old california 200ppm fuel, the number had to go up to 20%.

Now maybe with the recent advent of better additives the oil companies finally caught on....but a baseline fuel is just that one sample. And it was 640..way too high.

Also, what happens to the lubricity when we have winterized fuel? One would expect that you would need a higher % of bio to achieve the same results here...Temp permitting.
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Old 08-26-2007, 10:40 PM   #49 (permalink)
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SPICER for all your hard work. This will go down with your airfilter study in the list of great projects that we refer new members to for years to come.
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Old 08-26-2007, 10:41 PM   #50 (permalink)
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One thing to keep in mind is that the majority, if not all, of the diesel injection system manufacturers, such as Stanadyne, Bosch, Diesel Equipment, etc., keep warning NOT to use water EMULSIFIERS and definitely nothing that contains any type of alcohol.

They claim that emulsifiers will allow water to get past the water separator in the filter and enter the injection system components; then when the engine cools down, the water can get deposited inside critical components and when combined with other chemicals in the fuel such as sulfur, it can create acids that will eat away at the injection system.

GM also stresses the same point in every piece of literature that I've seen from them regarding diesel fuel systems.

I have seen injection pumps that were ruined from moisture that condensed inside after the vehicles sat around for a while without being run.

A few years back, Stanadyne engineers showed me a pump that came out of a Chevy truck that was seized after the truck had sat over a weekend during the summer. I don't know how much water had been sitting there, but is wasn't very pretty.

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