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Old 06-01-2013, 10:17 AM   #1 (permalink)
whitedog
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Brake warning light and beeping

I made a mistake by posting my question in an old thread but folks kept replying to the original poster. I won't do that any more. HERE is the old thread.

This is what I have posted so far:

Has anyone had any resolution to this? I have read a few different threads with the same problem and nothing has been reported as, "I did this and it fixed it."

Our 2007 540,000 mile C5500 has been doing this with a bit of a twist. We found out that if we don't use the turn signals, it doesn't happen. Since the switch was having other issues, we replaced it, but this problem continued.

But wait. There's more!

When using the left turn signal, the flasher unit will start clicking rapidly. When this happens and the headlights are on, the license plate light will flicker and the left turn lights flicker as well. I found that I can wiggle the wires from the left headlight to the frame and the flickering will stop.

I plan on performing the TSB and probably the BLS and see how it goes and I will report back.

Then later:

More information:

A third driver drove it today and the turn signal has nothing to do with the brake light and beeping.

It only comes on as you are coming up and stopping. It's that last second of stopping and it comes on.

But things have changed since then...

I realized that the brake pump wasn't coming on. Or the brake lights. OK, replaced the blown stop lamp fuse and now I have brake lights and a brake pump, but now I have gone from an intermittant problem to a constant problem. It used to be, I could cycle the key off and on and it would stop beeping and the light would go off.

Now if I cycle the switch, the light stays on and after about two seconds, the beeper starts beeping again.

I took apart the BLS and it's stoopid simple. You can pull the contacts out and clean them, but these were pristine. I have a suspicion that doing the TSB won't do any good. It seems like that is something that would rear its head while still under warranty mileage and not 544,000 miles down the road.

Any suggestions on what to check next?

Then this:


Quote:
Originally Posted by t76turbo
Another source of brake/ buzzer going off is caused by a speed sensor failure. ABS light would also be triggered. There is one speed sensor at each wheel. If you have access to good scan tool you can check speedsensors to confirm proper funtion.

I think you should also inspect wiring harness on driverside just above fender liner. I had some chafed wires there on my truck. Was causing some intermittent problems.

Since you have a code in relation to brake switch, I would start there , as others have mentioned.
(I just realized he was replying to the original poster but it was still helpful.)

This lit a bulb over my head. The problem was intermittent until I started messing with it. One place that I looked at was the hydroboost relay on driver side just above fender liner. Now it's constant. hmmmmm Veddy intervesting. I'll be looking at it later this weekend, but this gives me a definite place to start looking. Thanks.

I have a good scanner and it will read most of the modules, but it won't read the ABS on any of our trucks. I may break down and see if another shop can read it. I also need to look at the speed sensors and their wiring.

Ronjhall, thanks for that info. I thought that there was something there, with a sensor, but I hadn't looked close enough to find it and it's wiring.

I will look it over well, but I am afraid I will need to get it scanned to get a code. We all know that codes aren't everything, but they tell us where to start looking.

So this is where I am right now. With a new thread, there shouldn't be confusion about who is replying to who.
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2, 2007.5 LMM C5500 passenger buses each travelling 100,000 highway miles a year, as of July 2014, each over 650,000 miles. 1, 2006 C5500 passenger bus, with a reman engine at 425,024 miles on 28 Sep 2014. 1, 2013 Freightliner M2 chassis/Cummins 6.7 ISB passenger bus travelling 100000 mountain miles per year. And a bunch of stupid minivans. And the bane of my existance: a 2005 PSD and a 2006 Sprinter.
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Old 06-02-2013, 04:57 AM   #2 (permalink)
ronjhall
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Not sure there is a difference. But you need to go to the Upfitter site and select your year electrical drawings. Then trace the electrical circuit.
I am not sure but, I do not think a code reader will read brake system faults.
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Old 06-02-2013, 01:48 PM   #3 (permalink)
whitedog
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I'm not using a code reader, I am using a diagnostic scanner but it won't read the brake module or the body control module (if it has one, I'm not sure).

I have wiring diagrams showing the upfitter stuff though as far as the brakes are concerned, the upfitter has nothing to do with it.

And today, I said, "What the heck" and looked at the engine controller for codes and found P0504. I haven't looked it up yet to find out if anyone else has had this code, but I do know that it means Brake switch circuit 1-2 correlation.

So I guess tha0t it reads the brake switch and something else that should be happening at the same time and something isn't right.

On the good side, I got to looking at the wiring and pulled the wiring from the brake controller to hydroboost pump and found a few wear spots but nothing spectacular and nothing has changed. I also looked behind the rear splash shield (the one that you have to unbolt) and found two wires hanging on by I think it was two strands each. It's all fixed up, but I'm glad that I found them.
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Brake warning light and beeping-img_20130601_154351_016-1-.jpg   Brake warning light and beeping-img_20130601_154921_973-1-.jpg  
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2, 2007.5 LMM C5500 passenger buses each travelling 100,000 highway miles a year, as of July 2014, each over 650,000 miles. 1, 2006 C5500 passenger bus, with a reman engine at 425,024 miles on 28 Sep 2014. 1, 2013 Freightliner M2 chassis/Cummins 6.7 ISB passenger bus travelling 100000 mountain miles per year. And a bunch of stupid minivans. And the bane of my existance: a 2005 PSD and a 2006 Sprinter.
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Old 06-04-2013, 12:07 AM   #4 (permalink)
whitedog
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I don't feel so bad now. I had two shops hook up their scanners and they couldn't hook up to the brake controller either. Another shop that handles the city busses said he has one that will hook up. In almost two years working on these, this is only the second thing I have had to farm anything out. The other being A/C work.
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2, 2007.5 LMM C5500 passenger buses each travelling 100,000 highway miles a year, as of July 2014, each over 650,000 miles. 1, 2006 C5500 passenger bus, with a reman engine at 425,024 miles on 28 Sep 2014. 1, 2013 Freightliner M2 chassis/Cummins 6.7 ISB passenger bus travelling 100000 mountain miles per year. And a bunch of stupid minivans. And the bane of my existance: a 2005 PSD and a 2006 Sprinter.
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Old 06-04-2013, 01:26 AM   #5 (permalink)
heymccall
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"Last second of stopping"...look at the rear sensors, and the integrity of the reluctor wheel. Any filings stuck to the sensors, or corrosion/profile loss of the reluctor teeth, can give a fault. Been a while since I was under my 5500 but, I know for sure that rear sensors are exposed, and I believe the front are too. At that mileage, I'd also check bearing slop at all four corners, which can also affect low speed sensor output.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:02 AM   #6 (permalink)
whitedog
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Mccall, thanks for the excellent suggestions. Hopefully they will be able to tell me if one of the speed sensors is waving it's hand saying, "Look at me! Look at me!"
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2, 2007.5 LMM C5500 passenger buses each travelling 100,000 highway miles a year, as of July 2014, each over 650,000 miles. 1, 2006 C5500 passenger bus, with a reman engine at 425,024 miles on 28 Sep 2014. 1, 2013 Freightliner M2 chassis/Cummins 6.7 ISB passenger bus travelling 100000 mountain miles per year. And a bunch of stupid minivans. And the bane of my existance: a 2005 PSD and a 2006 Sprinter.
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Old 07-19-2013, 09:00 AM   #7 (permalink)
whitedog
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Ugh. ABS problems... This one was a front left sensor wiring.

Then another one of our busses came down with the ABS blues. I found one rear sensor with a broken wire right where it goes into the rubber. Replaced it and no love. Took it back to that shop and they found a brake switch code. Swapped that out but no love. More research and apparently that particular code says brake switch, but it's actually a front speed sensor. One was bad and one had compromised wiring. Both are getting replaced and I will replace the other rear sensor as preventative. Hopefully this will fix the ABS light problems.
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2, 2007.5 LMM C5500 passenger buses each travelling 100,000 highway miles a year, as of July 2014, each over 650,000 miles. 1, 2006 C5500 passenger bus, with a reman engine at 425,024 miles on 28 Sep 2014. 1, 2013 Freightliner M2 chassis/Cummins 6.7 ISB passenger bus travelling 100000 mountain miles per year. And a bunch of stupid minivans. And the bane of my existance: a 2005 PSD and a 2006 Sprinter.
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Old 07-27-2013, 04:16 AM   #8 (permalink)
oldschoolmc
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In the past I have been called out on the U Haul c5500 and the brake light was on and the alarm beeping. I was told the power steering pump runs the power brake and this can happen when coming to a stop with the wheels turned. ( and this happened a lot at the truck stop when customers stopped to refuel)

I was told to start the truck drive a few hundred yards and do not turn the steering wheel slowly stop the truck / turn the engine off / restart the engine and slowly make a left or right turn and by golly it fixed it, I must have done this 10 times.

What do the experts say? I was just doing what I was told, I hope it does not make me look like an idioit!!! lol
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Old 07-27-2013, 09:39 AM   #9 (permalink)
whitedog
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Well, the last of the ABS woes is done now. I haven't replaced the last speed sensor on the one bus, but I will do that when I do the rear brakes this Fall.

One thing that I found that is worth sharing is that on the 2006, with this axle, the rear sensors are about 3 inches long and they slide into a small housing that bolts to the wheel hub. After so many miles, I pulled the small housing and it looked like the housing and the sensor were all one part. I don't recall how I noticed it, but I finally noticed something and realized that the sensor and housing were separate parts. It took a BFH and drift to separate the two.

Once they were separate, I had to remove the cage inside the housing then take a carbide burr to the inside of that housing to remove the rust. Just remove the rust and don't go wallering out the fresh steel. I finally got it all cleaned up and installed the new cage that came with the new sensor.

Installation is to mount the housing, then push the sensor all the way in until it touches and drive it. It will set it's distance the first rotation. Rust on the tone wheel is OK, apparently, but I would think that if it has been flaking off enough, it could cause a gap that the sensor wouldn't read, but maybe not.

Hopefully when I do that last sensor, I'll remember to take pictures.
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2, 2007.5 LMM C5500 passenger buses each travelling 100,000 highway miles a year, as of July 2014, each over 650,000 miles. 1, 2006 C5500 passenger bus, with a reman engine at 425,024 miles on 28 Sep 2014. 1, 2013 Freightliner M2 chassis/Cummins 6.7 ISB passenger bus travelling 100000 mountain miles per year. And a bunch of stupid minivans. And the bane of my existance: a 2005 PSD and a 2006 Sprinter.
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