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Old 03-14-2009, 11:05 PM   #1 (permalink)
bhinrichs
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Pinion Seal

I used the instructions on here to attempt to change the pinion seal in my 2002 CCLB.

Things seemed to go fine, but the seal does not fit like the old one did. I got the seal from Merchant, so I think it is the right one.

When I took off the yoke, the old seal came apart in two pieces. Part stuck to the yoke, part stayed in the housing. When I pulled the back half (the half left in the housing of the differential), an O-ring came flying out. I assume (hope) that was part of the old seal.

The old seal seemed to have more, and better contact with the yoke, the new seal bearly touches it. I had to pry the old seal parts from the yoke, I could slip the seal on and off the yoke by hand with ease. There isn't a separate yoke seal part is there?

What is the white sealer that was in the splines? I used a non harding sealer that I got at auto-zone.

Hopefully I don't have to re-do this. It does still seem to weep just a bit.

Do things sound ok?

Thanks,

Bert
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Old 03-15-2009, 02:52 PM   #2 (permalink)
LtEng5
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the white on the spline is a RTV to keep the gear oil from coming out the yoke. the "ring" that came out should have been a spring that is inside the rubber of the seal. no problem if it came out with the old seal being bad. on the yoke - did you notice how deep was the grove worn by the old seal. if the new seal doesnt "seal" quite right because its riding in the old seal grove, you may need to get a "offset" seal so that the rubber is riding on a diiferent part of the yoke. clean off any spun out oil trials under the bed and keep an eye on it for a few days, if you dont see any new spots you should be good
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Old 03-15-2009, 11:24 PM   #3 (permalink)
bhinrichs
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Thanks for the reply,

I have to redo everything. In all the instructions I saw, it was never mentioned (that I saw) that there are 2 seals. There is one seal in the pinion housing (apparently the one everyone talks about), and another on the yoke flange. The one on the yoke flange is meant to slide into the one in the pinion housing. What I thought was two pieces to the pinion seal is really two different seals.

The one on the yoke flange has to be replace as well, at least in my case. I tried to find one locally here. I was "told" that it did not need to be replaced. I showed them how it was worn on one edge and that edge was curling up. The mechanic insisted that it was all right. So I re-installed it. About 3 miles into a test drive, smoke starts coming out from under the truck. I look, sure enough, rear end oil is getting sprayed onto the exhaust. I get it home, take it apart again (now for the third time), and that thin curled edge had somehow grabbed the guts of the new pinion seal and ripped it out. Now both seals are torn.

For those looking, the AAM part number on the pinion seal was 26064030 (as was on the box of the first replacement seal from Merchant Auto). After cleaning the remains of the yoke flange seal, it has a part number on it of 26060977.

Now if I can just find a new pinion seal and yoke flange seal, maybe I can get this done.

Thanks,

Bert
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Old 03-16-2009, 01:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
LtEng5
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make sure you are using new crush sleeves and torqueing it to the proper numbers or you can easily over tighten the yoke and burn up the bearings or worse leave it a little loose and wobble the pinoin in the hole.
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Old 03-16-2009, 08:03 PM   #5 (permalink)
bhinrichs
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Are you sure that needs to be done?

All the instructions simply say mark the nut, pinion, and yoke, measure (or count) the amount of threads sticking out of the nut, remove the nut, remove the yoke, remove old seals, install new seals, replace the yoke, re-tighten until marks line up and exact measure of threads is sticking out of nut.

I removed no crush sleeves when I removed and replaced the yoke and seals.

Am I missing something? I thought you only had to do the new crush sleeves when you replaced the pinion and ring itself?

BTW, it is beginning to look like my pinion yoke or hub came apart. What I thought was a seal on the yoke, or one of two halves of the pinion seal, is apparently considered "part of the yoke flange", and it is beginning to look like I have to buy a new yoke just to get this part of the seal.

A mechanic at a dealership said that part is "just a dust cover" and should not wear out. This part contains the surface area that people are supposed to touch up with emery paper if you can see a ridge where the seal was riding. In my case, this simply slides off of the yoke.

Thanks,

Bert
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Pinion Seal-sittingonyoke.jpg   Pinion Seal-sideviewyokeseal.jpg  
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Old 03-18-2009, 06:00 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LtEng5 View Post
make sure you are using new crush sleeves and torqueing it to the proper numbers or you can easily over tighten the yoke and burn up the bearings or worse leave it a little loose and wobble the pinoin in the hole.
HE'S RIGHT! New sleeve is the easiest and textbook for this type of repair on this axle. You can try and re-crush the crush sleeve(I have seen this done once or twice on 1/2 ton axles ie light duty, light torque values), but you'll risk over torque and possibly get too much preload on the bearings. (which are used and require less preload than new) Like LtEng5 said, you'll risk burning them up. No way around this, really. Do it right or do it twice.
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Last edited by MUD SLUT; 03-18-2009 at 06:00 PM.
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Old 03-19-2009, 09:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
bhinrichs
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So, what would be the right numbers for a used setup?

Thanks,

Bert
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Old 03-20-2009, 12:01 AM   #8 (permalink)
LtEng5
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IIRC ( its been a while ) its only like 5 - 15 ft/lbs.

you need to use a dial or pointer style torque wrench and its done by

wheels in the air; socket and torque wrench on pinion nut; pull on the torque wrench until the tires start to turn and read that number
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Old 03-20-2009, 04:46 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LtEng5 View Post
IIRC ( its been a while ) its only like 5 - 15 ft/lbs.

you need to use a dial or pointer style torque wrench and its done by

wheels in the air; socket and torque wrench on pinion nut; pull on the torque wrench until the tires start to turn and read that number
It's more than that. I believe 15-20in/lb preload for used bearings/races and 20-30in/lb for new ones. I will check my diff book at home and post back the correct numbers tonight.
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KING COILS UP FRONT, KING RESERVOIRS AND ATLAS LEAFS OUT BACK, ORU RAM ASSIST CROSSOVER STEERING
37x13.50x17 OPEN COUNTRY MT's on WALKER EVANS BEADLOCKS
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Old 03-20-2009, 09:38 PM   #10 (permalink)
bhinrichs
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Well, for what its worth, this is what I found.

Used bearings pinion only:

10 - 25 inch-lbs.

New bearings pinion only:

15 - 30 inch-lbs.

Used bearings pinion and differential only (no axle and axle bearings)

25 - 50 inch-lbs.

New bearings pinion and differential only

30 - 55 inch-lbs.

I had started out using the index marks and measured threads approach posted here on the site. I had not measured any preloads prior to removing the yoke, and I had no intention of removing the innards of the differential to replace the crush sleeve. All using the index marks and measured threads approach had stated that they did not have to do this.

So, since I had to go with a new yoke just to get the new yoke seal (thanks GM) I had to do something different.

This is what I did. I had measured the threads sticking out of the old pinion nut with a caliper. The new yoke came as a kit, it had a new yoke/damper (with the new yoke seal), a new washer, a new pinion nut, and a new pinion seal. The new pinion nut and washer measured out to be exactly the same thickness/depth as the old ones. The new yoke measured out to be .020" thicker than the old one.

So, I lined up the old and new yoke, transferred the index marks, installed the new seal, yoke, washer, and nut, and screwed it down until my index marks "almost" lined up (index on yoke and pinion were in line, and nut was short). I stopped when I had .020" less threads sticking out than when I had the old yoke on there.

I pulled the axles, and measured total preload. I got 34 inch-lbs. Since I had no intention of removing any of the differential to get a pinion only preload, I did the best I could with what little slop there is in the differential as a whole.

If I turn the pinion back until all slop is out, then carefully begin to turn it with an indicator wrench, it looks like I get 23 inch-lbs for that slight little bit until the slack goes away, then it goes to the 34 inch-lbs. measured for total differential preload.

This is on the upper end for pinion only, but towards the middle for total preload.

I drove the truck at 70 mph for 20 miles, stopped, immediately crawled under it and felt the differential. It was very mildly warm, or luke warm if you will. This seems reasonable to me.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think I will worry any more.

I appreciate the suggestions and help.

Thanks,

Bert
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