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Old 06-17-2006, 10:30 AM   #1 (permalink)
Chevy454
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Injector failure & fuel boiling?

Was getting everything ready the night before for a trip to Michigan (around 12+ hours from here) and our '02 Dmax started acting afool. I noticed it had started smoking and had little power, but thought maybe it just hadn't warmed up yet...well, on the way to my brothers house with the trailer the thing started smoking like I'd blown a head gasket and then fuel started spraying up against the back of the cab! I have an auxillary tank in the bed, so the vent hose off the factory saddle tank is routed up into the bed so we can keep an eye on it...well, the fuel was *literrally* boiling and spraying out of the vent all in the bed of the truck...it was so hot I couldn't touch the rubber hose.

Anyway, I stop, unhook the trailer, and call a buddy to haul me to the dealer...sure enough, the #8 injector is bad, and since it's an '02 he says the book calls for 6-7 hours PER SIDE...but, here's the kicker: he's only replacing the injectors on one side?! Says that's all GM will let him do? So basically, the truck is gonna quit me AGAIN when the injectors on the other side go out! I told him he'd need to change the oil ('cause I'm sure it dumped fuel in the crankcase) and the fuel filter, and he gave me the old "well you'll have to pay for those" routine...

Also, I asked him how the fuel would have been hot enough to boil...he told me it was because of my auxillary tank! I told him no way, that firstly the aux tank wouldn't be putting any heat into the fuel system, and that even if it *was* overfilling the saddle tank the fuel guage simply goes past *full* and then jumps down to empty and the "low fuel light" comes on...naturally, he thinks I'm ignorant of the entire matter...but my gut is telling me that this truck is gonna quit me again down the road for something they could fix RIGHT NOW??!! Any ideas?
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Old 06-17-2006, 10:42 AM   #2 (permalink)
duramaxdiesel
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They are now replacing ALL 8 injectors. Don't settle for that BS.
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Old 06-17-2006, 02:35 PM   #3 (permalink)
Mad4aMax
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I just replaced 8injectors,fuel filter, & injector pressure lines this past monday on a '02 w/94k+changed the oil due to injector overfueling & flooding the crankcase with fuel. GM is not going to kickback any warranty claim for replacing all 8. I've done probably 5 with the exact same procedure & they have never kicked back any of my claims submitted under special policy 04039 + it only pays 8hrs even for all 8 including fuel filter & changing the oil, ask your service manager to practice random drug tests cause that dudes on crack!
..I guess that would be a little to much.
Anyway that policy 04039 is only for excessive fuel return rates, if that is not what your truck is experiencing & they want to be a pain in your backside than they will only replace 1 or only 1 bank.
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Old 06-17-2006, 04:40 PM   #4 (permalink)
Chevy454
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I *knew* this was the place to come...THANK YOU! I've been reading this forum since before we bought the truck, but had never registered...yet you guys still stepped up and helped a newbie...AWESOME!

Anyway, is "policy 04039" what I specifically need to tell the dealer? As my luck would have it, it was the service manager feeding me this crap! It may be against GM's "rationale", but my thinking is that if 1 injector failed, and that since it's a known problem, why not replace all 8 with the updated injectors while the truck is down, and hedge thier chances of ruining an engine down the road? Doesn't make sense, but probably on par with the suits at GM...! So, what's my next step to get this done correctly NOW? Is there any policy, or anything else specifically, I need to tell these guys? This isn't just an around town truck, as we take trips to New Jersey (24+ hours one way) throughout the year...and breaking down with my family in Tinbucktu will NOT make me happy...

Thanks again, y'all...

[Edit: btw, they originally tried to tell me I wasn't changing the fuel filter often enough...well, I change it every other oil change, and had just changed it less than 2k miles ago before the injectors let go...we've had a 3116 CAT for a while, which had dual fuel filters, so I'm not green when it comes to maintaining a diesel.]

Last edited by Chevy454; 06-17-2006 at 04:48 PM.
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Old 06-18-2006, 10:51 PM   #5 (permalink)
Chevy454
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I'm gonna call the dealer first thing in the morning, and if I'm not liking what I'm hearing I may call another dealer...any advice on how to approach this? It sounds ludicrous to simply replace only 1 bank while the truck is torn down...
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Old 06-19-2006, 09:43 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Dealer not wanting to replace all 8 injectors: help!

Well, I called the dealer this morning, and told them I really wanted them to replace both banks of injectors, not just 1...well, they told me they can't do that, 'cause GM requires them to send back the injectors, and if the other bank was within spec they'll throw a fit...I told them I didn't care, because the other side is inevitably gonna go out on me if they don't replace them...they then told me the only way they'd do the other bank is if I'd honor the cost if and when GM kicks it back?! I also talked to a gentleman here in town that worked at another dealer a few towns over until just recently when he took a better job, and he said that it was standard practice for them to do *both* banks while they're in their because GM only wanted to pay the labor to fix them ONCE...made sense to me...

So, did I screw up and overstep my bounds, or is there a chance GM will make good on this? And, what info do I need to arm myself with before I hear back from the dealer or GM??

Thanks!
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Old 06-19-2006, 05:16 PM   #7 (permalink)
legacyshooter
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call gm assistance they should help you out. I had the same issue and they are replacing all 8 now. Bad news is that they have had my truck for going on 2 weeks.
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Old 06-19-2006, 08:07 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Yep, call GM right in front of him so he knows you aint going for it.Just had all 8 done in mine,oil change, fuel and oil filters...all waranty.
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Old 06-20-2006, 08:36 PM   #9 (permalink)
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--They should be using this bulletin if any injector is returning to much fuel.IF the injector that failed isn't returning to much fuel than they do not have to replace all 8!Document ID# 1715916
2002 Chevrolet Chevy K Silverado - 4WD


Subject:Service Engine Soon (SES) Light On, DTCs P0087, P0093, P1093, Low Power, No Start, Hard Start, Fuel in Crankcase (Replace All Injectors - New Strategy for High Fuel Return Rates) #04-06-04-007F - (10/21/2005)


Models:2001-2004 Chevrolet Silverado
2003-2004 Chevrolet Kodiak C4500/C5500 Series
2001-2004 GMC Sierra
2003-2004 GMC Topkick C4500/C5500 Series
with 6.6L Duramax™ Diesel Engine (VIN 1 -- RPO LB7)



This bulletin is being revised to include additional model years and revised warranty information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 04-06-04-007E (Section 06 -- Engine/Propulsion System).
<A href="http://service.gm.com/servlets/BlobShtml?ShtmlFile=1715916&psdid=271&evc=sm#ss1-1715916">Condition

Some customers may comment on the Service Engine Soon light becoming illuminated. Upon investigation, the technician will find DTCs P0087, P0093 or P1093. Additional customer comments may include a lack of power, a fuel smell on the oil dipstick, fuel in the engine oil, fuel coming out of the crankcase breather, the engine cranks but does not run, or a hard start condition. This condition will not cause an engine misfire. Do not apply this bulletin to any diagnostic other than what is identified in the chart below.
<A href="http://service.gm.com/servlets/BlobShtml?ShtmlFile=1715916&psdid=271&evc=sm#ss2-1715916">Cause

The fuel injectors have internal conditions that may cause them to return an excessive quantity of fuel to the tank, as well as leak fuel into the crankcase. Due to the return flow and/or leakage, the fuel injection pump may not be able to build up adequate fuel rail pressure.
<A href="http://service.gm.com/servlets/BlobShtml?ShtmlFile=1715916&psdid=271&evc=sm#ss3-1715916">Correction

Important: Before the technician begins diagnostics and repair, be sure to follow the guidelines in Corporate Service Bulletin Number 03-06-04-036 to avoid fuel system contamination.
Follow current diagnostics for the condition the vehicle is experiencing, then reference the table below. If the diagnostics lead to Fuel System Diagnosis - High Pressure Side, follow the diagnostic until the Fuel Injector Return Flow is measured at each cylinder bank return connection (bank to bank).
Condition
Start with this SI Diagnostic in the Diagnostic Information and Procedures sub-section of the Engine Controls Section
Delayed Start
Hard Start
Lack of Power
Lack of Power, Sluggishness or Sponginess
Engine Cranks but Does Not Run
Engine Cranks but Does Not Run
Fuel in Oil or Fuel leak out of breather
Fuel In Engine Oil in Engine Mechanical
DTC P0087
DTC P0087
DTC P0093
DTC P0093
DTC P1093
DTC P1093

Important: If the SES light is illuminated, follow diagnostics for the DTC as indicated with the Tech 2.
Important: When installing the new fuel injectors, lubricate the inside of the fuel injector sleeve with clean engine oil prior to installing the injector. Do not lubricate the injector or O-ring seal prior to installation.
If fuel return flow on either the right or left cylinder bank is above the initial fuel injector bank return flow value, then replace all eight (8) fuel injectors using the Fuel Injector Replacement procedure in the Engine Controls section of the appropriate Service Manual.
Record all diagnostic data as outlined on a copy of the attached diagnostic worksheet. The diagnostic worksheet and a copy of the repair order is to be returned with the removed injectors.
After replacing injectors, perform the following steps:
  1. <LI type=1>Replace the fuel filter element. <LI type=1>Install all disconnected and removed components. Refer to the applicable procedures. <LI type=1>Start and idle the engine. You may have to prime the fuel system before the engine will start. <LI type=1>Connect a scan tool.
  2. Command the fuel pressure control to 160 MPa with a scan tool.
    If the fuel pressure is more than 145 MPa, the system is OK.
    If the fuel pressure is unable to increase to more than 145 MPa. Refer to System Diagnosis -- High Side Pressure in the appropriate Service Manual.
    Be sure to record fuel pressure readings on the diagnostic worksheet.
<A href="http://service.gm.com/servlets/BlobShtml?ShtmlFile=1715916&psdid=271&evc=sm#ss4-1715916">Parts Information

Part Number
Description
Qty
97729095*
Injector - Fuel
8
97188896
Gasket - Valve Rocker Arm Cover
(Reusable Gasket)
As Req'd
97228933
Gasket - Fuel Injection Fuel Return Pipe and Injector
8
97600925
Gasket - Fuel Injection Fuel Return Pipe
2
94011604
Seal - Water outlet
1
12378521 (U.S.)
88901148 (Canada)
Sealant
1
97188463
Sleeve, Injector
As Req'd
94051259
Seal, O-ring - Injector Sleeve
As Req'd
98017645
Filter, Fuel
1

*P/N 97729095 is only available in a merchandising pack quantity of 4. Current order restriction limits availability to 8 per VIN.
<A href="http://service.gm.com/servlets/BlobShtml?ShtmlFile=1715916&psdid=271&evc=sm#ss5-1715916">Warranty Information

Important: This labor operation listed below is covered by emissions and is not subject to the $100.00 deductible. Dealer’s will need to use the following information when submitting claims on vehicles still covered under that warranty:
2001-2002 Model Year vehicles may be covered by Special Policy Number 04039. Please refer to Special Policy Number 04039 before submitting any warranty claims.
For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:
Labor Operation
Description
Labor Time
J7801
Injector, Fuel - Diagnose & Replace(2003-2004 Models)
*8.0 hrs
T5603
See Special Policy Number 04039 for published times(2001-2002 Models)
*Note: The labor time represents a reduction over the previously published time due to unnecessary steps in the repair procedure being eliminated, such as removing the radiator shroud and accessory drive belt. Also, the original add time to replace all injectors was overstated, Finally, the number of diagnostic steps have been adjusted because individual injectors are not being diagnosed. The labor time guide will be revised in the near future.
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Old 06-20-2006, 09:27 PM   #10 (permalink)
Chevy454
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It *had* to be returning massive amounts of fuel, 'cause the pump had built up enough heat to boil the fuel out the vent...and it almost didn't restart, and could barely get out of it's own way. Funny, though, I found that bulletin on another thread here and printed it off, and told the dealer about it...and the funniest thing happened, they said "yeah, we got to talking and thought we remembered there was something special about the '02 injector warranty"...yeah, right! I've been checking on them every little bit to check their progress to make sure they're doing me right, but I shudder to think of the other people that have taken trucks in to this dealer only to get the run around and have problems down the road...
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