5.7L Pump Issues - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums
 
Home Forum Market Place Garage Lounge (1) Tuning Library DTC Tool Register Vendors
Go Back   Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums > GM Diesel Engines > All Other GM Diesels
Register FAQ Forum Rules My Replies My Threads Mark Forums Read Auto EscrowAuto LoansInsurance

DieselPlace.com is the premier Duramax Diesel Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-01-2011, 07:45 PM   #1 (permalink)
tqwrench
Diesel Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 23
iTrader Score: 0 reviews

5.7L Pump Issues

Hopefully someone can tell me where I went wrong during my pump rebuild...

First, a little about the car & engine. The car is a 1984 Cadillac Fleetwood, however the engine was swapped out before I bought it. As near as I can tell it came from an 1980 model truck. I say that because it's a Goodwrench reman with a DB2825 SH3914 pump and pencil injectors. The block is DX and the heads are D3A.

Next, how I got to a pump rebuild: I flew to California, bought the car and drove it back to Florida. I had the oil changed, fuel filter changed and treated the fuel wth Motorcraft Cetane Boost additive at each fill up(it's Stanadyne's Performance stuff repackaged for sale by Ford dealers). The problem I started to run into was a progressively worsening idle quality and white smoke at idle. Add to that some surging at 50-60 MPH light throttle later on. Other than that the car ran fine the whole way home. The idle/surge issue sent me into the pump.

I spent this weekend rebuilding the pump after acquiring a kit online and a governor flex ring (in case). Turns out this pump had already been built once and had what I have to assume was the EID (no rivets on the backside of the governor). I followed the directions, matching the seals I removed and cleaned the pump with a 50/50 mixture of Motorcraft Lubricity (again Stanadyne repackaged) additive and Kerosene.

I cannot get any fuel to the injectors now. I get plenty into the pump and a slow stream (while cranking & shortly after) from the return. I took the pump apart again and double checked my work, timing, cam ring, shaft to pump timing, shaft to engine timing all to no avail. I don't get so much as a popcorn fart out this thing. During my last attempt I didn't even bother to connect the injector lines. After filling the pump, I cranked (and cranked and cranked) looking for the slightest trace of fuel out of the head and got nothing. During my second attempt I put the transfer pump screw down a thread or two below flush as well. I double checked the shut off solenoid operation as well, and was very careful to install it properly.

During the first rebuild attempt I saw some very tiny metal flake floating around inside the pump but nothing substantially worn internally. I also got some metal during the second attempt after cranking repeatedly, which does concern me. The only wear I found internally was the cam/advance to housing, which appeared minor, since the assembly was free. I did not take the head completely apart, so I don't know what's in there yet. Luckily I have another pump on the way but I've rebuilt everything from engines to transmissions to a/c compressors and have never had this much trouble with something.

I would be grateful for any ideas...not just on the pump but on the overall engine/fuel system combo. I'm not 100% this is the correct pump for this setup making all of this an excercise in futility anyway. I think I read somewhere that pencil injected engines should use a DB2825 PC**** pump variety.
Offline  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-02-2011, 10:02 PM   #2 (permalink)
DieselPro
Diesel Master
 
DieselPro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,032
iTrader Score: 0 reviews

Got to use the right pump for pencil injectors.

You should get fuel on the bench by spinning counter clockwise fast and have 12volts going to the SO solenoid.. Solenoid is clicking right?

Most common mistake is putting the small metering valve clip under the guide stud.

No metal should be in pump. Fix that first.

Ask away I've done 100's of these pumps.
__________________
Over Fueling the mind with innovation.
Counting down to the 4,000th post then I am out of here. Whoops, I guess I'm still here.

Last edited by DieselPro; 05-02-2011 at 10:03 PM.
Offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-02-2011, 10:19 PM   #3 (permalink)
dieselolds
George Costanza fan...
 
dieselolds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Newfoundland/Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,177
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Send a message via MSN to dieselolds

The SH designation would tell me your using a poppet injection pump.I had a DB2825 SH3811 injection pump that had the long slender aluminum alloy arm on the passenger side section of the pump housing.If your pump has that alloy arm,your using the wrong pump.The poppet injected pump uses the mechanical light load advance feature and the pencil pump uses the speed advance system.

But in any case,even if you were using the wrong pump,the pump should still spray fuel.If it does'nt,i'd suspect stuck pumping plungers in the base of the rotor assembly.I've seen this happen many times.
__________________
1978 Chevrolet K20....with '81 5.7L DIESEL DX block/TH400

1993 Chevrolet K1500 Z71....with newly rebuilt '97 6.5 TD (506 squirter block)

1997 Chevrolet K1500 ext.cab Z71....6.5 TD engine is out....New Genuine GM 6.2 660 short block takes its place.Equipped with 4L80E/6.5TD cylinder heads and DS4 injection system.

1998 Chevrolet K1500 Z71.....with a '87 6.2L DIESEL and 700R4.

2002 Volkswagen Jetta TDI.....with a 1.9L turbo diesel/5 speed.Cold air intake system.

2013 Volkswagen Passat TDI comfortline....with 6 speed manual tranny and 2.0L turbo diesel.
Offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-02-2011, 10:21 PM   #4 (permalink)
tqwrench
Diesel Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 23
iTrader Score: 0 reviews

Thanks for the reply. What a learning curve this has been. Luckily I located a DB2825 PC374* (can't read that last number on the tag on the photo) online, and am having it shipped to me now. It was last used in 1997 from a running vehicle so it's going to need gone through prior to me thinking about bolting it up. The good news is other than the mismatch of the pump to the injectors, someone did put some work into this engine. I noted some anti sieze on the glow plugs, plus the fact that during the coldest (50s) weather I experienced during my trip the car started after about 5s of glow plug operation tells me they're later model GPs. I think when it's all said and done, the correct pump to match the injectors, the DX block D3A heads, this car should run pretty good.
Offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-02-2011, 10:23 PM   #5 (permalink)
dieselolds
George Costanza fan...
 
dieselolds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Newfoundland/Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,177
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Send a message via MSN to dieselolds

It's probably a 3742 pump.I have one of those on my 5.7 diesel.It's a good pump and will do the job well.The other pencil pumps are 3271 and 3633.There are more,but those three are the most popular.
__________________
1978 Chevrolet K20....with '81 5.7L DIESEL DX block/TH400

1993 Chevrolet K1500 Z71....with newly rebuilt '97 6.5 TD (506 squirter block)

1997 Chevrolet K1500 ext.cab Z71....6.5 TD engine is out....New Genuine GM 6.2 660 short block takes its place.Equipped with 4L80E/6.5TD cylinder heads and DS4 injection system.

1998 Chevrolet K1500 Z71.....with a '87 6.2L DIESEL and 700R4.

2002 Volkswagen Jetta TDI.....with a 1.9L turbo diesel/5 speed.Cold air intake system.

2013 Volkswagen Passat TDI comfortline....with 6 speed manual tranny and 2.0L turbo diesel.
Offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-02-2011, 10:35 PM   #6 (permalink)
dieselolds
George Costanza fan...
 
dieselolds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Newfoundland/Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,177
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Send a message via MSN to dieselolds

I'm also using D3A heads with the '81 DX block.Nice engine and performs very well for me.I've spent $4 grand in that engine with ARP fasteners,.030 oversize pistons,total seal gapless piston rings and the list keeps going.
__________________
1978 Chevrolet K20....with '81 5.7L DIESEL DX block/TH400

1993 Chevrolet K1500 Z71....with newly rebuilt '97 6.5 TD (506 squirter block)

1997 Chevrolet K1500 ext.cab Z71....6.5 TD engine is out....New Genuine GM 6.2 660 short block takes its place.Equipped with 4L80E/6.5TD cylinder heads and DS4 injection system.

1998 Chevrolet K1500 Z71.....with a '87 6.2L DIESEL and 700R4.

2002 Volkswagen Jetta TDI.....with a 1.9L turbo diesel/5 speed.Cold air intake system.

2013 Volkswagen Passat TDI comfortline....with 6 speed manual tranny and 2.0L turbo diesel.
Offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-02-2011, 10:45 PM   #7 (permalink)
tqwrench
Diesel Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 23
iTrader Score: 0 reviews

There is something so unique about having a diesel in a big car like this. I've wanted one for years, ever since my Uncle bought his '81 Electra with the 350 diesel in it. After he died my cousin acquired it and seeing her go 400-500 miles on a tank of fuel just amazed me. I also have a soft spot for big old Cadillacs and man this car generates a lot of attention...from the un-initiated asking, "Hey why is that thing making so much noise?" right before I stick the green handled pump into it at the fuel station...to the guy who stopped me at a rest stop asking me if he could take a movie of me starting the engine to send to his friend who didn't believe these cars came with Diesel engines. I'm looking forward to getting it back on the road soon.
Attached Thumbnails
5.7L Pump Issues-fleetwood-1.jpg  
Offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-03-2011, 12:08 AM   #8 (permalink)
DieselPro
Diesel Master
 
DieselPro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,032
iTrader Score: 0 reviews

here's a 3811 pump and you'll notice the poppet type injectors which go with it.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...HZPAtgfi3eC0BQ
__________________
Over Fueling the mind with innovation.
Counting down to the 4,000th post then I am out of here. Whoops, I guess I'm still here.

Last edited by DieselPro; 05-03-2011 at 12:08 AM.
Offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-03-2011, 12:16 AM   #9 (permalink)
DieselPro
Diesel Master
 
DieselPro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,032
iTrader Score: 0 reviews

DB2825PC3840 was probably the last and best pump for the pencil style nozzles.

http://www.gm-diesel.com/vbull/non-t...sel-faq-6.html
__________________
Over Fueling the mind with innovation.
Counting down to the 4,000th post then I am out of here. Whoops, I guess I'm still here.
Offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-03-2011, 08:56 AM   #10 (permalink)
tqwrench
Diesel Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 23
iTrader Score: 0 reviews

Thanks for the replies. This helps. I've ordered a seal kit and plan to go through this PC pump this weekend if all the parts show up on time. I'll let you know how it turns out!
Offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

PLEASE READ! You must check your email inbox for the confirmation link to complete registration. Please check your spam box if you do not see the email in your inbox.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Vacuum pump issues? SuperiorCES 6.5L Diesel Engine 17 08-19-2009 04:46 PM
Primer pump issues bigphil Duramax First Generation: 2001-2004 (LB7) 6 10-19-2008 01:31 PM
Any Pump Rub Issues with 2001's?? duramaxdiesel Drivetrain - 2001 - 2010 7 01-27-2007 10:14 AM
Fuel Pump issues. ChevyTruck 6.5L Diesel Engine 1 06-20-2006 09:13 AM
fuel pump issues ? 3602daryl Duramax Second Generation: 2004.5-2005 (LLY) 4 08-20-2005 09:47 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:02 AM.


Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.1 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
© AutoGuide

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0