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Old 02-26-2010, 11:38 PM   #1 (permalink)
Sacket
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Cold weather and Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF)

I asked this question in someone else's thread (click) and want to start a separate thread on it.

An article states (click) that DEF freezes below 12F. My question is, has anyone heard about cold weather operations for this? Your truck will go into limp mode if all is not well with the DEF. If you have a frozen chunk of DEF when you go to start your truck...what will happen?

Thus far the answer replied back is:
1. The tank is heated. (click)

If the tank is heated, how fast does it thaw?
Does DEF freeze solid or just solidify into a slush?
Will a higher concentration of urea improve its freezing temp?
Are there additives to add to DEF to prevent it from freezing?
How reliable are the "tank heaters" and will you have to plug them in similar to the block heater?
Do you have to keep your DEF supply in the cab of the truck because if you keep it in your tool box it will freeze and you will not be able to poor it?

If anyone can come up with more questions or answers please chime in. Living in ND these are concerns I have about buying a new truck with DEF.
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Last edited by Sacket; 02-26-2010 at 11:40 PM.
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Old 02-27-2010, 09:09 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I couldn't find any info in the service manual but, I do not think you have anything to worry about. GM tests at some of the coldest places on earth. Every vehicle in North America goes through Cold Weather Durability at Kapaskusing, Ontario. In addition, they are overnight soaked at -40 C in cold boxes during powertrain development.

Last edited by MTU alum; 02-27-2010 at 09:10 AM.
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Old 02-27-2010, 11:00 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTU alum View Post
I couldn't find any info in the service manual but, I do not think you have anything to worry about. GM tests at some of the coldest places on earth. Every vehicle in North America goes through Cold Weather Durability at Kapaskusing, Ontario. In addition, they are overnight soaked at -40 C in cold boxes during powertrain development.
Now that you said that I know you'll get some snickers from those badass rugged more manly than everyone else in the world guys who live/work in the yukon territory, where it gets -150* and not -30* like in kapaskasing.

ben
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Old 02-27-2010, 12:37 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DURAtotheMAX View Post
Now that you said that I know you'll get some snickers from those badass rugged more manly than everyone else in the world guys who live/work in the yukon territory, where it gets -150* and not -30* like in kapaskasing.

ben
You think -150*F is cold? You ain't seen nothing.

To answer the original concern, it'll thaw quick enough. It's not like it needs DEF to start and move, it's only required every 700miles (up from every 400) during a "regen."
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Old 02-27-2010, 12:54 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Carl Lassiter View Post
You think -150*F is cold? You ain't seen nothing. "
its t-shirt weather!
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Old 02-27-2010, 08:01 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Supposedly by the time the engine gets hot enough for DEF to be effective the DEF it will have thawed.
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Old 02-27-2010, 08:08 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Does it really know the difference between urea and strait antifreeze? I doubt it.

I foresee these tanks freezing and cracking up.
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Old 02-28-2010, 09:51 AM   #8 (permalink)
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The heavy truck makers have gotten a permit from the government that allow the truck to run without urea for a small amount of time while the tank thaws. I assume Gm is in the same boat.

Has anyone considered what would happen if you just put diesel in the urea tank?
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Old 02-28-2010, 12:39 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Does it really know the difference between urea and strait antifreeze? I doubt it.

I foresee these tanks freezing and cracking up.
well thats why GM does their cold-weather durability testing at -40*c

arrrghh come on guys, for the one billionth time, its not like GM just found out yesterday that urea freezes at 12*, dont you think they would have tested the crap out of it at temps colder than that because probably 75% of the trucks they sell see temperatures that cold at least once in their lifetime?????????????????????????

And also, for the one HUNDRED billionth time, if you put anything but urea in the tank, YES the ECM will know, so stop thinking you can fake it out with anything else. Urea is cheap and will be available everywhere by the time they come out, so RELAX.

ben
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Old 02-28-2010, 02:34 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DURAtotheMAX View Post
well thats why GM does their cold-weather durability testing at -40*c

arrrghh come on guys, for the one billionth time, its not like GM just found out yesterday that urea freezes at 12*, dont you think they would have tested the crap out of it at temps colder than that because probably 75% of the trucks they sell see temperatures that cold at least once in their lifetime?????????????????????????

And also, for the one HUNDRED billionth time, if you put anything but urea in the tank, YES the ECM will know, so stop thinking you can fake it out with anything else. Urea is cheap and will be available everywhere by the time they come out, so RELAX.

ben

so you know for a fact what urea is made of?,if so tell us more//please
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