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DEF problem

132K views 540 replies 130 participants last post by  gcc marathon 
#1 ·
My truck is saying that it is out of DEF even though it is full. The dealer can't fix it and they have another one there with the exact same problem.

Have you guys heard about this being a common problem? Truck was working great up to this point.
 
#2 ·
My truck is saying that it is out of DEF even though it is full. The dealer can't fix it and they have another one there with the exact same problem.

Have you guys heard about this being a common problem? Truck was working great up to this point.
What does the dash warning say exactly? I just got mine back from the dealer 30 minutes ago for a DEF issue on my 2011
 
#4 ·
I could be wrong, but I thought I read that once you get this message and refill the DEF tank, you need to drive it for like 20-30 minutes for this to reset. Maybe someone else can verify this.
 
#39 · (Edited)
that didn't help us any but Onstar told us to park it inside where it could thaw. that didn't work either the warning lights are still on and the tank is full. They also told us that anything over -10 celsuis that the fluid would freeze, so how are we here in Manitoba suppose to drive these trucks when the temperature is -25 to -30 celsuis.
 
#7 ·
I've been hearing of some guys at different dealers having this exact problem. One guy had engineering (I believe) end up getting involved and he replaced the ECM and programmed it with a special calibration for that truck only.

Wonder if this is going to be a trend?

Sounds like the direction the dealer is looking on mine. They have a call into engineering and haven't heard back.
 
#6 · (Edited)
The error does not go away and you will be restricted to 55mph until you reset the ecm. Disconnect battery cables after you have refilled the def tank and leave them disconnected for 10 minutes. Reconnect and you will be good to go. Happened to me when i was 1400 miles away from home. Kind of pissed me off but i had other problems that were a factor. Lost my wiring harness to my dpf from a block of ice hitting the bottom of the truck. Left me in limp mode at 5mph with a 30 mile trip back to Sault Ste Marie. I am still trying to calm myself down from this episode before i entirely post what happened with pictures of the broken hardess.
 
#9 ·
I saw the email my service manager received back, they are working on either a reflash or a new ecm to fix the problem. The way I read that is, there is a problem with the ecm and they are trying to find a way to work around it instead of replacing ecm's. Service manager told me there is a dealer just South of us with 6 trucks sitting and waiting with the same problem.

I hope they get this fixed soon, this is my daily driver work truck and I am racking up the miles on my Dodge now.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Seems like that would be a good interim solution, assuming the DEF tank has a traditional fuel-level sensor.

But if the warnings are triggered by DIC-like inputs--similar to the the oil and fuel filter change alerts which are based on miles driven and other parameters--that wouldn't necessarily work.

Although maybe if the the tank were topped up, say, at every fill-up . . .
 
#13 ·
My '11 has 4,800 miles and no indication of low DEF yet... I have read that the estimated range is ~ 5,000 miles. I am going to see how far I can get before the warning goes on then I will fill it up.. Anyone post the range they get for a tank of DEF (real world)?
 
#14 ·
If everything is working properly there is no need to reset the ECM, I deliberately ran mine out of DEF, got the 55 mph warning, kept driving it for a while, was actually in 55mph mode, then filled the tank and everything was fine. Nothing to reset, the message just went away automatically. GM's guideline of 5,000 miles per 5 gallons of Def is pretty darn close. Certainly no reason to top off the tank after every tankful. If you're concerned at the most you could put in a gallon every 1,000 miles, but that's probably overkill.
 
#42 ·
If everything is working properly there is no need to reset the ECM, I deliberately ran mine out of DEF, got the 55 mph warning, kept driving it for a while, was actually in 55mph mode, then filled the tank and everything was fine. Nothing to reset, the message just went away automatically. GM's guideline of 5,000 miles per 5 gallons of Def is pretty darn close. Certainly no reason to top off the tank after every tankful. If you're concerned at the most you could put in a gallon every 1,000 miles, but that's probably overkill.

We only got 800km. till we had to fill and still the warning light is on and can't seem to get it off no matter what we do> Neep Help???
 
#16 ·
When I do get it back, you can bet I won't let it go near empty again. I was letting it go low just to get an idea of how far it would go, but I don't want to chance this again.
 
#17 ·
Heavybrewster I heard about that block of ice when I was in the dealership in the Sault. Mine was in getting first oil change. I wonder how many blocks of ice up here are going to cause nightmares. :confused:
 
#18 ·
This is all very interesting...

My truck went 6700 miles before any DEF messages, then I got a warning of DEF range: 860 miles. The next morning, I got a message saying DEF range: 390 miles, and I hadn't driven maybe 20 miles since the night before. So, I add three gallons to the tank, and the message immediately says DEF range: 890 miles. I figured maybe it needed to get a real reading on the level after some driving... maybe? I thought it odd that three gallons increased the range only 500 miles or so, after going 6700 miles initially on the first tank full.

A week goes by, no messages. Drive the truck about 800 miles. This morning, I'm getting the message DEF range: 260 miles. So, I add a 2.5 gallon jug from the dealer, and get no change in the indicated range. I stopped back to the dealer fearing that the message could cause me to go into limp mode eventually, even though I knew the tank had fluid. I have a couple friends at the dealership, and one of them was good enough to put the Tech 2 on the truck while I waited. He reset a few things and the message cleared. The Tech 2 showed tank capacity between 88% and 100%.

I'm less than confident that GM has the bugs worked out of this system. Kinda pisses me off. Why can't the level of the tank be monitored at will on the DIC, just like engine oil life, fuel filter life, or fuel level for that matter?

I'll keep you guys posted as to what goes on. Maybe we should all keep each other posted as to our individual findings, as the dealers seem to be very much in the dark still... :mad:
 
#19 ·
Interesting that a tech II can tell how full the tank is. Does this mean that perhaps the aftermarket can produce a DEF gauge for our trucks?
 
#20 ·
Absolutely. Just like the factory boost gauge, and all the other factory gauges on there that the stock owner has no access to.
 
#21 ·
just learned while googling "PIT5037" for a brake issue. scroll down the list and you will see where they recommend only adding 3 1/2 gallons during refill. it wasn't the issue i was looking for so i didn't pay much attention to it. just thought you'd like to know
 
#23 ·
That's true. The dealer gave me that bulletin. DEF is 67.5% de-ionized water, so it can actually freeze in the tank. The system has three heaters for the fluid. Only filling the tank partially gives the fluid room to move when it freezes and also when it is heated. They said they've had two trucks come in with the tanks overflowing in sub-freezing weather.

The whole thing seems kinda half thought-out to me... :confused:
 
#22 ·
Maybe GM will come out with a flash to show the DEF level in the DIC. Kinda like they did in early 05 for the fuel filter life... THAT would be nice.
 
#24 ·
Wonder what would happen if you simply re-routed the outlet back into the tank (never running out). I suspect that it may slightly effect emissions but would it actually hurt the truck in any way?
 
#26 ·
After doing some research, and talking to my friend Matt who has a new 2011 Duramax, the DEF is turning into a nightmare for GM. His truck went into "limp mode " due to the tank freezing in very low (-45c) ambient temperatures. I talked to a service adviser in Red Deer Ab, and he informed me that they are seeing "a lot" of these problems.

The service adviser said GM is working on a solution. That doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in people who expected their 50k dollar trucks to work properly.
 
#56 ·
After doing some research, and talking to my friend Matt who has a new 2011 Duramax, the DEF is turning into a nightmare for GM. His truck went into "limp mode " due to the tank freezing in very low (-45c) ambient temperatures. I talked to a service adviser in Red Deer Ab, and he informed me that they are seeing "a lot" of these problems.

The service adviser said GM is working on a solution. That doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in people who expected their 50k dollar trucks to work properly.
The solution is to make these diesel engine burn alot cleaner W/O all the emissions crap and I know the technology is out there but.......
 
#27 ·
Too bad to hear all these stories when purchasing a 60K dollar truck and having to worry if the thing is working right so it doesn't go into limp mode.

I also questioned the issue with DEF freezing a while ago before the 11's hit the dealers. I see that it is now becoming a bigger issue.
 
#30 ·
DIC comes on and tells you that you have 1000 miles left in the tank. How much more of and indication do you need? In 11K miles I've put 5 gallon in two different times. I'm getting ready to drop in another 5 gallon in a few days because it came on saying I had a 1000 miles left to go. I did not get as many miles out of this fill because I did more heavy towing.

DEF freezing is not new news. Everyone knew it would freeze. I think they just need to have a bigger heater in the tank.

Greg
 
#284 ·
That's what I thought until today. 1000 mile warning and put in DEF. Not always true. Today- no warning and said "next start speed limited to 55mph." no warning. has at least 4 gallons in it. temps low -20 to 0.

Had to leave at airport will see what happens when I get back in a few weeks. ???
Dan
 
#31 ·
I just stopped and checked on the status of my truck. They are planning on removing and draining the tank, refilling and reflashing the ecm. They were just starting on another one when I got there, so I suggested unhooking the batteries like I read here on another post. They are trying it right now on mine.

I'm nervous that GM has them draining tanks because that looks like they are trying to find a way to put the blame on the DEF and not on the truck. It makes no sense to me that if the ecm has a problem resetting, draining it and refilling it will not do any good.

I'm curious to see if killing the power will work, and so was the service manager actually. I know they are frustrated with this problem.
 
#32 ·
It want be long before aftermarket companies add the DEF% parameters to their monitors
 
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