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Is this trailer too big for my 6.5?

19K views 187 replies 27 participants last post by  dieselmike1 
#1 ·
We sold our travel trailer and my wife wants to get a larger 5th wheel. Unfortunately for my old 6.5 dually, my wife likes this one pictured below. It is 37' long with 4 slides and has an empty weight of 11,200 lbs., so loaded im estimating 13,500 to 14,000 lbs. I told her that's too much for our truck, and she just responds that other dually's are pulling big trailers.:banghead:
Soooo, who else thinks this is asking way too much of the 3500 6.5?

 
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#2 ·
She paying for the new truck?
 
#4 ·
PrivatePilot posted this in the Newbies Sticky: "There are people that routinely pull fifth wheels weighing in the 16,000 Pound range with 6.5 equipped trucks (Equipped with 4.11 gearing, discussed below) and some that report towing equipment trailers weighing 18,000 or more, but gauges are critical as is your driving style - don’t expect to race up grades on cruise control without paying any attention to things - you will have to work within the ability of the engine and “Take your foot out of it” if the gauges indicate you’re working it too hard. Personally, I have hauled my 12,000 pound fifth wheel coast to coast, over many mountain passes, and up (and down) grades as high as 10% with my 6.5 and have been pleased with it’s performance"

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63.../631161-sold-rv-bought-something-heavier.html

PrivatePilot tows HEAVY :thumb:.
 
#12 ·
PrivatePilot posted this in the Newbies Sticky: "There are people that routinely pull fifth wheels weighing in the 16,000 Pound range with 6.5 equipped trucks (Equipped with 4.11 gearing, discussed below) and some that report towing equipment trailers weighing 18,000 or more, but gauges are critical as is your driving style - don’t expect to race up grades on cruise control without paying any attention to things - you will have to work within the ability of the engine and “Take your foot out of it” if the gauges indicate you’re working it too hard. Personally, I have hauled my 12,000 pound fifth wheel coast to coast, over many mountain passes, and up (and down) grades as high as 10% with my 6.5 and have been pleased with it’s performance"

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63.../631161-sold-rv-bought-something-heavier.html

PrivatePilot tows HEAVY :thumb:.
Yes, but it doesn't have near the wind resistance, and by the time im loaded full of gear and groceries, your probably talking 22,000 lbs. gross combination weight.:eek:
 
#6 ·
That would be a lot to ask of any 20 year old pick-up to pull.
 
#8 · (Edited)
That is a big SOB!! Look at it this way, if you get that and blow your engine itll be a good reason for a p400! :)
 
#9 ·
That is a big SOB!! Look at it this way.if you get that an blow your engine up itll be.a.good reason for a p400! :)
There lies the problem, my wife is getting a small settlement, and she's gonna spend it all on a camper, no money left for me. I would be left with a blown engine.:confuzeld
 
#15 ·
Yes I know, and I believe that's what you would need to pull a trailer this size, especially in mountainous regions.
Trying to explain weight ratings, towing capacities, etc. etc. to a woman who doesn't grasp that kind of stuff is difficult. Trying to explain that just because we have a dually, does not mean it will pull what all the other newer dually's are pulling.:banghead:
 
#16 ·
My wife also wanted a trailer that big and I said to the rv salesman, "I don't think my truck is legally rated to tow that". Salesman looked it up and said yup. You'd be overweight. Ended up buying a 24ft bumper pull. Truck does OK towing that. I also have the dually. I believe srw are rated to tow heavier but not by much.
 
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#17 ·
My wife also wanted a trailer that big and I said to the rv salesman, "I don't think my truck is legally rated to tow that". Salesman looked it up and said yup. You'd be overweight. Ended up buying a 24ft bumper pull. Truck does OK towing that. I also have the dually. I believe srw are rated to tow heavier but not by much.
Yes, I think were going to have to stick to something around 12,000 maximum trailer weight.
 
#20 ·
Not sure what the cost of that rig is but $30K will buy ya pretty nice diesel pusher and than all ya need is a toad to pull behind it. That's my plan for retirement...
Its actually a pretty good deal, its slightly used and being wholesaled. Believe it or not its under $25,000. We sold our travel trailer for $13,000 and it was paid for, so its not a ton of money out of pocket, but it doesn't matter if you cant pull it where you want.:confuzeld
No motorhomes for me, my mother and father had one that was a pain in the backside, if it sat for long periods a gasket or seal would dry out and would develop leaks.
 
#19 ·
How heavy was your previous trailer and did you tow it with the 3500 dually?

I have a 9500 lb trailer that weighs close to 12500 loaded. My 94 really really knows something is back there when I'm towing it. I haven't had a chance to tow it with the muffler removed. I'm thinking it is going to help a LOT.

I haven't and don't plan to tow very far with the 6.5 and definitely not through very mountainous terrain. Yes it can be done and PP is a good example.

I would do as earlier suggested and find out what your truck can tow legally and get something in that weight range.
 
#21 ·
How heavy was your previous trailer and did you tow it with the 3500 dually?

I have a 9500 lb trailer that weighs close to 12500 loaded. My 94 really really knows something is back there when I'm towing it. I haven't had a chance to tow it with the muffler removed. I'm thinking it is going to help a LOT.

I haven't and don't plan to tow very far with the 6.5 and definitely not through very mountainous terrain. Yes it can be done and PP is a good example.

I would do as earlier suggested and find out what your truck can tow legally and get something in that weight range.
Ours was around 9,000 all loaded down.
I think the towing capacity was rated at 10,000 according to GM, but I think they were being conservative because of the 6.5 engine. Now days a lot of half tons are rated for 11,000 and I know our 3500's have heavier frames and axles, so you really have to go by your own judgement on that.
 
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#22 ·
I while back I was helping a friend look at new 1/2 ton trucks and they for sure are playing games with the tow ratings. In almost every case you would have to special order a truck to get the advertised tow rating. No dealer would order a truck that way without a guaranteed sale because getting it 'properly equipped' you pretty much loose every advantage there is to getting a 1/2 ton.

The SRW's have a higher rating than the duals? Must be due to the extra weight of the duals taking up some of the capacity?
 
#23 · (Edited)
As far as I can tell the 3/4 ton ratings are mostly just for tax and commercial/non-commercial ratings. For example the F250 can be had in a 9900 or 10000 GVW. Do they put 100 pound lighter/heavier springs and brakes on them? No, it is just for how different states have their laws worded.

When it comes to GCW ratings, as long as the towed trailer has brakes that can stop it's load then it should be ok.

The srw vs drw is another thing that makes me think that some of the weight ratings are based on legal input more so than the actual towing capacity. The drw only has about 2500 lbs in additional payload evem though it gains about 5000 lbs in tire load capacity. The 350 and 450 have the same gvwr but the 450 can tow about 8000 lbs more. In fact the F250 srw is rated for a higher towing capacity than the F350 srw...:Insane:
 
#24 ·
I don't know how they arrive at some of these rating's on newer trucks, but some of the rating's on these 1/2 ton's seem very, very optimistic to me.
 
#25 · (Edited)
Some of the tow ratings on the F150 ecoboosts come to mind. No way in he77 would I keep one of those past the warranty period if I regularly used it to tow at max capacity - something like 11000 lbs on a 3.5ish liter engine yet my 6.7 is only rated at 14000. :confuzeld Sorry, there is no substitute for cubic inches.
 
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#27 ·
Ya a lot of it is to do with the way various states register and insure the different classes. In my state a 3/4 is a car. A 1 ton is commercial no matter how its used unless it qualifies as an RV. Back when I had my 1 ton I think the break was at 9000 GVW but that must have changed since then because my dad just got a new 2500hd truck that I think is around 10k GVW and he has the regular 'car' plates. My 1 ton was like 10.5 so I had truck plates and insurance which was why I had to get rid of it, too much money for something I didn't drive much. I know people that have 1 tons and their own business and there are advantages there because of some clause in personal use and commuting that you don't get dinged as bad tax wise compared to if you had a 'car'.

Like I was saying its something like sure you can get the 11,000 towing but its not the 4 door cab with the aluminum wheels and 6 speed trans that gets the advertised mpg you see in the ads. You end up having to order a extended cab, steel wheels, 4 speed, and high rear end. You don't get the mpg with that combo even when running empty. There was also something about 4x vs 2x vs AWD that made a huge difference in the towing. At that point you might as well just get the 3/4. At least then when you tow you won't tear the thing up. Looking at the brakes and running gear you can see on the new trucks it does not look like they have up sized anything since 'our' era trucks, if anything it looks like they have downsized things.
 
#28 ·
Looking at the brakes and running gear you can see on the new trucks it does not look like they have up sized anything since 'our' era trucks, if anything it looks like they have down sized things.
Exactly! I see a lot of newer half tons at the campgrounds with these so called half ton towable fifth wheels that weigh 10,000lbs. or more, and I talk to the owners, and they say well its within my manufacturer's tow limits. I think its unsafe, and the industry is putting a lot of people at risk with these optimistic towing capacities! Just my 2 cents.:coffee:
 
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#30 ·
16 foot horse trailer so thats what 4 typical horses? Call it 1000 each plus the trailer and extras, so thats what around 6,000-7,000 gvw?
 
#31 ·
Including all tack,tools,hay,water,maybe a generator yeah about 7,500
 
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#34 ·
Here is a post off of rv.net, you can see his tow rig and the weight he's pulling in his signature.:confuzeld

I tow a 32' FW with a dry pin weight of 1100lbs with my 2011 XLT Max Tow EB with 2080 lb payload. I also installed a 200lb SuperGlide hitch.

What pushes me over is full gray and black tanks. They are located forward of the axles. Even a lighter hitch would not help.

Do yourself a favor and get either the HD or a capable 250/350.


2011 Ford F-150 EcoBoost SuperCab Max Tow, 2084# Payload, 11,300# Tow,
Timbrens, PullRite SuperGlide 2700 15K
2013 KZ Durango 1500 2857
 
#35 ·
Any of the EB guys say what they get for mileage towing that heavy? It can't be good. You would have to do a lot of not towing to make up for it. There is a guy at work that was real high on the EB's and how awesome they are. He has had one for over a year now and I have not heard much about the awesomeness since he got it. He only tows maybe 4500 so out of 12,000 that should not be a problem at all.

And to Ok Dually, I bet you thought that 7500 was not that bad behind the 1/2 ton till you did it with the dually. That's how I was. Thought a 1/2 with a v8 was all there was to it and it didn't get any better than that.
 
#39 · (Edited)
Okdually and 57diesel, horse trailer was 4500# empty, add 4-6 horses at avg 1000# each plus hay tack and cooler definitely not grossly overloaded nut even with electric brakes on both trailer axles you could feel everything. Same load behind the 2500HD with six-oh was way more comfortable, behind the 2500 HD with LLY was better yet. Behind my dually with LMM I have to look to remember the trailer is even there! I won't bore you with what loads of hay felt/feel like. Just picture in your mind a gooseneck flatbed with 425 square bales at about 60# each would feel like on two lane highway.
 
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#40 ·
Try renting a similar travel trailer and put the truck through the paces. Pretty easy to see where the problems lie when you get the trailer on.
 
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#42 ·
I've got a truck that is one year younger then me that I constantly put 105,500 on it..... granted it is a semi. A bit slow compared "new" semi's, but gets the job done for what I do. Granted, it's only for 6 weeks and less then 100 miles round trip....

Your biggest "legal" issues are factory axle weights. If you do not exceed rear axle weights and front axle weights, it should be a go. Power, well, as said, no land speed records will be broken..... The GCWR from the factory is the main issue. Some say it's conservative, some say it can tow more. But, if anything were to happen (accident), I bet lawyers will look at that......(just playing devils advocate).

If you have the 4.10 ratio, and you feel your transmission/engine is up to it, go for it. If you could go for slightly smaller, then get a smaller 5th wheel. If you can't convince the wife, do this, find a flat bed equipment trailer (borrow rent) and load it w/ what you think the max weight will be your travel trailer will be. Drive it around and see how your truck will act. Granted, you won't have the wind resistance, but it will give you an idea how that much weight will be like.....
 
#44 ·
I've got a truck that is one year younger then me that I constantly put 105,500 on it..... granted it is a semi. A bit slow compared "new" semi's, but gets the job done for what I do. Granted, it's only for 6 weeks and less then 100 miles round trip....

Your biggest "legal" issues are factory axle weights. If you do not exceed rear axle weights and front axle weights, it should be a go. Power, well, as said, no land speed records will be broken..... The GCWR from the factory is the main issue. Some say it's conservative, some say it can tow more. But, if anything were to happen (accident), I bet lawyers will look at that......(just playing devils advocate).

If you have the 4.10 ratio, and you feel your transmission/engine is up to it, go for it. If you could go for slightly smaller, then get a smaller 5th wheel. If you can't convince the wife, do this, find a flat bed equipment trailer (borrow rent) and load it w/ what you think the max weight will be your travel trailer will be. Drive it around and see how your truck will act. Granted, you won't have the wind resistance, but it will give you an idea how that much weight will be like.....
True, those blood sucking lawyers will look for anything to nail it too you!:banghead:
 
#45 ·
A state patrol inspector told me that most of the time what they get people on is tire loading, or overloading in this case. He said they like that one because its pretty clear and easy to prove. Tire clearly says its load rating. Pull onto a small scale and if you are over you are done. Apparently other over weight things can be a lot harder to weigh and prove especially on the side of the road.

I asked if I had a compact car with a hitch duct taped on but load range E tires would I get away with it? He said possibly because they would have to prove that the duct tape hitch was a hazard and as absurd as it sounds apparently that is hard to prove legally. Most cases like that would not have the load range E tires so that is how they would do it.

He also told me that unless you get a trooper that is just an ass you have to look pretty out of control for them to pull over any non commercial or RV rig on the road. Apparently is easy to fine a commercial rig but more paperwork for a private one.

The RV thing is also interesting. I have a friend that has to have a medical card for his truck which is like U haul size. He always complains that he has to go through that hassle but you could be 100 with quadruple quadruple bypasses and drive a class A cross country.
 
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#47 ·
A state patrol inspector told me that most of the time what they get people on is tire loading, or overloading in this case. He said they like that one because its pretty clear and easy to prove. Tire clearly says its load rating. Pull onto a small scale and if you are over you are done. Apparently other over weight things can be a lot harder to weigh and prove especially on the side of the road.

I asked if I had a compact car with a hitch duct taped on but load range E tires would I get away with it? He said possibly because they would have to prove that the duct tape hitch was a hazard and as absurd as it sounds apparently that is hard to prove legally. Most cases like that would not have the load range E tires so that is how they would do it.

He also told me that unless you get a trooper that is just an ass you have to look pretty out of control for them to pull over any non commercial or RV rig on the road. Apparently is easy to fine a commercial rig but more paperwork for a private one.

The RV thing is also interesting. I have a friend that has to have a medical card for his truck which is like U haul size. He always complains that he has to go through that hassle but you could be 100 with quadruple quadruple bypasses and drive a class A cross country.
The DOT always checked my front tire weight rating on my otr trucks, so I know that's true.
 
#46 · (Edited)
Hey guys, I missed this thread apparently.

Will it pull it? A dually 3500 with 4.11's? Yep.

Are you going to REALLY feel it back there...hell yeah. Would I do it within the understanding that you're asking a lot of your truck? Yep.

Here's my horse trailer thread for those interested in reading up the followup from the one posted earlier:

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/76.../665402-bringing-old-trailer-back-life-2.html

The trailer is around 10K empty, so not far off the empty weight DM. When I put 4 horses in it it easily surpasses 15K. My old 5th wheel was about 10-12K loaded (it had extra tank capacities and we often traveled long distances so we carried a LOT of weight) and my horse trailer pulls a lot harder than it ever did, hence why I know the horse trailer is way heavier.

Does the truck work hard? Yep. Do I worry about it? Not really. You already have all the gauges and necessary mods, so do like us truck drivers do - work within the limits of the truck and roll.

Will it pull up grades without slowing down? Nope. Ever seen a tractor trailer that doesn't slow down on grades though? Nope! So why should people expect a pickup truck with a big trailer to not do the same?

Will it run on cruise control on anything other than the flattest roads without shifting up and down in/out of overdrive? Nope. You'll have to drive it manually 90% of the time, work the accelerator to keep it in OD as much as possible and force a downshift when necessary...keeping it in a sweet spot.

Will it heat up in the summer and cycle the fan on/off a lot? Yep. A long as it stays under 210...who cares? I *NEVER* had issues running over 210 for more than a minute or so, and it wasn't far over it - I backed out of the go-pedal, temps came down, no problem. 99% of the time I could pull any hill even in the peak summer months without overheating. Yes, sometimes the fan ran almost constantly, but again, who cares?

Will you have to keep an eye on EGT's? Yep. 1200 comes up fast and sometimes you need to back out of the go-pedal to either lower or maintain 1200. Downshifting helps as well. Again, this comes back to the realities of needing to drive the truck "manually" a lot when towing heavy. It's not like the new "put it on cruise and forget it" trucks.

So that's the key. You'll have to actually drive your truck almost constantly, not just get on the highway, push the tow-haul button and then the cruise control button (like the big new high HP trucks) and then sit back and relax.

Can it be done? Yep. I did it. Coast to coast with our 5'er and many tens of thousands of kilometers. I have lots of pictures from our trip out west here showing us (and our old 5er) in lots of interesting places during a trip to the west coast in 2008. ;)

Photos - Beginning to End

And in another 8 week or so I'll be waking my old girl from her winter slumber, loading up 5000 pounds of horses into the horsetank, and heading off to another horse show!
 
#49 ·
Hey guys, I missed this thread apparently.

Will it pull it? A dually 3500 with 4.11's? Yep.

Are you going to REALLY feel it back there...hell yeah. Would I do it within the understanding that you're asking a lot of your truck? Yep.

Here's my horse trailer thread for those interested in reading up the followup from the one posted earlier:

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/76.../665402-bringing-old-trailer-back-life-2.html

The trailer is around 10K empty, so not far off the empty weight DM. When I put 4 horses in it it easily surpasses 15K. My old 5th wheel was about 10-12K loaded (it had extra tank capacities and we often traveled long distances so we carried a LOT of weight) and my horse trailer pulls a lot harder than it ever did, hence why I know the horse trailer is way heavier.

Does the truck work hard? Yep. Do I worry about it? Not really. You already have all the gauges and necessary mods, so do like us truck drivers do - work within the limits of the truck and roll.

Will it pull up grades without slowing down? Nope. Ever seen a tractor trailer that doesn't slow down on grades though? Nope! So why should people expect a pickup truck with a big trailer to not do the same?

Will it run on cruise control on anything other than the flattest roads without shifting up and down in/out of overdrive? Nope. You'll have to drive it manually 90% of the time, work the accelerator to keep it in OD as much as possible and force a downshift when necessary...keeping it in a sweet spot.

Will it heat up in the summer and cycle the fan on/off a lot? Yep. A long as it stays under 210...who cares? I *NEVER* had issues running over 210 for more than a minute or so, and it wasn't far over it - I backed out of the go-pedal, temps came down, no problem. 99% of the time I could pull any hill even in the peak summer months without overheating. Yes, sometimes the fan ran almost constantly, but again, who cares?

Will you have to keep an eye on EGT's? Yep. 1200 comes up fast and sometimes you need to back out of the go-pedal to either lower or maintain 1200. Downshifting helps as well. Again, this comes back to the realities of needing to drive the truck "manually" a lot when towing heavy. It's not like the new "put it on cruise and forget it" trucks.

So that's the key. You'll have to actually drive your truck almost constantly, not just get on the highway, push the tow-haul button and then the cruise control button (like the big new high HP trucks) and then sit back and relax.

Can it be done? Yep. I did it. Coast to coast with our 5'er and many tens of thousands of kilometers. I have lots of pictures from our trip out west here showing us (and our old 5er) in lots of iteresting places. ;)

Photos - Beginning to End

And in another 8 week or so I'll be waking my old girl from her winter slumber, loading up 5000 pounds of horses into the horsetank, and heading off to another horse show!
I was wondering why you had not chimed in yet PP, seeing this subject is right in your wheel house.:HiHi:
 
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