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Won't Start, White smoke

10K views 21 replies 10 participants last post by  scruffydogtoo 
#1 · (Edited)
I have been having trouble getting her to start for two days now. Have read the extended thread on glow plugs and hard starting. Checked the voltage to the two easiest plugs to get at and they are both getting 10 v.

Question...How hot do these plugs get? do they actually get hot enuf to glow? Took the front plug out and grounded it, turned on the key and it got hot. Hot enuf that I could not touch it. Is that hot enuf or are they supposed to glow?

Checked the relay for tight connections, read the "meltdown" thread.

When I try to start, wait for light to go out and turn it over, the engine tries to start but shuts down immeadiatly. Puffs of white smoke from exhaust.
Did get it started late yesterday after many tries and was able to restart after warm up, ran good, now just won't keep running.

NO Codes
 
#2 · (Edited)
The glow plugs are supposed to get cherry red on the tip when the WTS light goes out.Make sure all eight wires are getting voltage.You can also check each plug with a test light.Connect the ground clamp to the + battery post and touch each metal tip on the glow plug.Disconnect the glow plug wires first though.If the test light comes on,the plug is in decent shape.Do the same for the rest.If no light can be seen,the plug is defective.

Thats just a quick way to test them.
 
#5 ·
To make sure I understand, I disconnect the wire to the plug, and use the test light while the plug is still installed? I would be touching the "Flag" end of the plug with the test light. Correct? By defective, it either does not work at all or does not get hot enuf?
Thanks
Dick
 
#6 · (Edited)
i had the same thing happen to my old truck 97 2500 6.5 t banks. but i changed the glow plug and found out there were only 2 working. so 6 were bad i just replace all and then it started. yeah thats correct put the test light pig tail to the pos end on the battery and use the probe and touch the ends of the glow plug for a second not to long or they will get to hot and blow. if it light up the glow plug there good if not there bad. oh yeah the inline fuse for the glow controler my be bad there about 5 inch away from the control there an inline fuseable link they go bad.
 
#7 ·
Yes,just disconnect the glow plug wiring connector and touch the metal spaded tip of the glow plug itself while its still threaded in the cylinder head.
 
#9 ·
yes thats correct only touch it for a second if it light up that one is good
 
#8 ·
If your in Florida and by the sounds of your stating problem I'm thinking you have other problems besides glow plugs.
It's not that cold down there...

Do the Diagnostic Checklist
 
#10 ·
The test light will tell you if the glow plug is open or not - period.
If it's open the light will not light up. That glow plug is bad - dead, toast.
OTOH - If the light does light up it just means that the glow plug is not open - However, it does NOT mean that the glow plug is good. It could mean that glow is a dead short (its fusable link should be open in that case) or it has some low resistance, but not necessarly low enough resistance to work correctly.
One other thing. You can leave the test light on a glow plug till the battery goes dead. The glow plug will not be hurt. The test lamp limits the current that can be supplied to the circuit under test.
You are much better off with a VOM (also called a MultiMeter), but even then you don't know if the glow plug is actually good, only if it's actually bad (open). If you get 1 or 2 glows reading about 1 Ohm and the others are higher then replace them all. If they're all around 1 Ohm then your problem most likely lies elsewhere.
The only way to really test them is to pull them and put 12 volts on each and see if it actually glows - quickly. Once you test a few and see what a good one looks like you'll know the bad ones right off when you see them. Be careful though, even bad ones can get really hot!
One bad may be just that - a bad glow plug. But if 3 or more are bad replace them all - The others are probably be near the end of their service life and will be dead pretty soon anyway.
OK - That was a few one other things...
 
#11 · (Edited)
Is your crank speed also where it should be? If the truck cranks slower than normal, it will not start very easy.

And as stated earlier, fill out a diagnostic checklist :)
 
#12 ·
Please don't just fill it out but DO the diagnostic checklist. It is not something you can do like filling an application form but have to do the actual test.
 
#13 ·
if you leave the test light on the glow plug it will blow out do to there about 2 volts in the glow plug not 12volts. the plug will get to hot and burn out thats why you dont leave the test light on it for a long period.
 
#14 ·
WTS Light on, normal time for me about 5 secs.
Starts, runs long enuf to put out a puff of white smoke (good old Diesel rattle) about 1 sec
Have fuel
DeSnorkled yesterday, new filters
No Codes
New Starter
Batteries and charging sytem good. Batts show 14v

The glow plugs are orig. 9g, 145,000 miles

Two that I have removed get hot, do not glow. show 10v.

It does get cold here in Florida, its all relative. temps this week have been as low as 45, but that engine is COLD.

Will do some more on the check list as I am able.

Thanks for all of the help.
 
#15 ·
It does get cold here in Florida
Amen! Coldest I've ever been in my life was in FL - Twice, years apart. Learned to keep leathers in the saddle bags...

They should actually glow - 10V is normal - Time for new glows. It's *recommended* that you replace the controller too - I think mine is the original and still works fine though.
 
#16 ·
If you want to be sure if they are good or bad pull em and test them, but if your going to do that its just as well to replace them all they are only a few bucks each.

The best non-invasive approach is to read the current running through each wire with a DMM or clampmeter. The resistance method is very good also, however I have run into problems using this method to test heating elements before. Resistance will read ok but the element is worn so much there is no capacity left to carry the correct current.
 
#17 ·
OK so I changed the four on the easy side <g> (I'm getting old and my hands are all cut up) First attempt the WTS light stayed on for a full 10 seconds and she started right up.
Not to let it get warm, I turned it off after about 25 seconds running very good, smooth, no smoke.
Second attempt, WTS again stayed on about 10 seconds, would not fire, just like before I changed the plugs.
Third attempt, I hooked up my charger, and turned it (charger) to "Start" mode, fired up nicely, ran great. disconnected charger, shut down the engine.
Fourth attempt, would not start on its own or with the charger at "Start" mode.

Now when it did start, the engine ran as smooth as it ever has, no white or black smoke, idled at its normal place on the Tach (850) accelerated smoothly all in all a normal running engine, so it cannot be fuel, the new plugs do work (at least from time to time) and the batteries and charging system are good.

So maybe it is the controller? Is this the board inside the relay? If so do you replace the entire relay or just the board?
Thanks again,
Dick
 
#18 ·
Just finished installing a new relay/controller, truck started right away, ran great, shut down after 25 - 30 sec, tried again, nothing, just like before.
Tried the water (glass of warm water on the PMD) Started, ran fine.
Would not restart though.
In frustration mode I patted the fuel pedal repeatedly and fast while turning the key to start and it started and ran fine. Shut it down and tried that again, and it starts most everytime I fast feed the fuel. Do not get smoke, black blue or otherwise.
Would this indicate a PMD problem?
Will a faulty PMD allow the truck to run fine once started but not allow it to start?
I am running out of ideas.
Thanks
Dick
 
#19 ·
Have you tested the LP?
 
#20 ·
Yes, I have lots of fuel, completed the Lift test.

Here is where I am now. Dumb me, although I went through the check list I did not indicate that last tuesday I had the starter rebuilt, had a dead spot and sometimes wud not turn over. Now the truck ran great with that exception.
After reinstalling the starter this whole, Won't start, White smoke started.
We assumed it had to be fuel or fuel related but never considered cranking speed. It sure sounded like it was turning over fast enuf.
Both Batteries before key on are at 12.4 to 12.7v. Using battery tester it shows both batteries good, after starting it shows the charging system good.
At idle (not 850 as noted earlier) 650-700 rpm both batteries are above 12 v.
At 1500 rpm once Alternator kicks in both batteries are at 14.6 - 14.7v

The problem has been getting the engine to start.
I have found that if I pump the pedal while turning to start, she will start on the 2nd or third try. Then it runs great.

All of this since changing the starter.

My tach does not read while the starter is engaged, what or where can I find the minimum RPM to start these 6.5's..?

When I can I plan to recheck the connections at the starter to make sure everything is right and proper. All of the other Cable/Batt connections are good.

New IP and PMD at 106,000, This week,new glow plugs 60g's, new glow plug relay, new starter, New air and fuel filters. Two year old 880 cold crank batts. Desnorkled yesterday.
Full load of clean nbr1 fuel. She starts and runs great if I don't wait for the WTS light while pumping the heck out of the pedal.

I do want to thank all you folks for your help to here.

When I do find the problem, I will post the fix.
Dick
 
#21 · (Edited)
Your alternator may be weak also. If you don't have any charge at idle should give a little charge and only at 1500 rpm. Is the rpm steady or erratic?

Also the LP may be working, is the OPS working? When the engine start cranking the OPS takes over the LP to run. Try to check the voltage on the LP connector, it should give at least 12V with ignition "on".

The passenger side GP, if you have not replaced it, get the wheel well of and the clamp that from turbo to Down Pipe. Don't need to take turbo off. You should have access to all 4 GP on that side. I have just replaced mine.
 
#22 ·
Removed the newly rebuilt starter and had it bench tested. Checked out good. While we had it in the shop I asked them to replace the "drive" as it was our suspect. The shop not only replaced the drive but put in another new Solenoid. We installed it in the truck and it works like a charm. She is good to go.
So we do believe that the drive which was installed when rebuilt was defective. It would not keep the starter engaged long enuf for the engine to fire.
Learned a great deal, mostly, don't assume that just because it was just rebuilt that the part is ok.

Thanks to everyone for your kind assistance.
Dick
 
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