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Old 10-14-2007, 10:45 PM   #1 (permalink)
redlinediesel
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6.2 injection pump rebuild

Does any know if there are any special tools to rebuild the pump.Or is every thing pretty basic. Has anyone every attempted this, because I have seen pumps for 300 and rebuild kits for 50 dollars. I would rather learn than pay. Any help would be great
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Old 10-15-2007, 11:06 AM   #2 (permalink)
jdemaris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redlinediesel View Post
Does any know if there are any special tools to rebuild the pump.Or is every thing pretty basic. Has anyone every attempted this, because I have seen pumps for 300 and rebuild kits for 50 dollars. I would rather learn than pay. Any help would be great
There's no such thing as a rebuild kit. The kit you mention is a seal kit with all the need o-rings, seals, and gaskets. No hard parts.

A worn pump often needs at least - a new pilot tube bushing, a new metering valve, new fuel pump vanes and liner, a pre-85 pump needs a new EID governor weight retainer - and many high-mile DB2 pumps need oversize advance pistons.

The pump is not overly complicated - but service information is not commonly available to the general public. So, without proper knowledge - it can become VERY complicated. A DB2 rotary injection pump - basically it two hydraulic pumps coupled together - a high pressure plunger pump and a low pressue rotary vane fuel pump. Some components added to control RPM and timing advance.

Most DB pumps require no special tools to take apart, replace what's necessary, and put back together. You can set fuel delivery with a 2" micrometer. Once installed on the engine - and running - you can set the fuel pressure with a 200 PSI gauge - but that does require a special adapter unless you can make one. Adapter # is 21900 and can be bought for $10. This pressure determines how the timing advance will work. Timing advance can be checked with a timing light or a luminosity probe.

Pumps that you buy as "rebuilt" are not what I consider rebuilt - just repaired, resealed, and calibrated. They reuse many major moving-parts components.
__________________
1982 K10 PU 6.2 diesel,1983 (two) Blazers 6.2 diesel, TH400, 1983 K5 Blazer with 6.2 diesel, 4sp man. OD trans. and Chalet pop-up camper body.
1986 K5 Blazer 6.2 diesel, 700R4 trans.- with Halmark pop-up camper body.
1987 V20 4WD Suburban 6.2 diesel, 1988 K5 Blazer 6.2 diesel, 700R4. 1989 GMC 3/4 ton, 4WD Suburban, 6.2 diesel, TH400 trans.
1991 Suburban 4WD 6.2 diesel 700R4 trans.
1981 (two of them) Chevy Chevette with 1.8 diesel and 5 sp. trans.
1985 Isuzu P'UP 4WD pickup with 2.2 diesel
1991 (Two of them) Volkswagen Jetta 1.6 diesel
1985 Ford F250 4WD ex-cab, longbed, 6.9 diesel
1994 Ford F250 4WD ex-cab, longbed, 7.3 IDI turbodiesel.
1983 Mercedes 300D five-cylinder turbo-diesel
1992 Dodge D200 4WD Cummins turbo-diesel, intercooled with 5 spd Gertrag
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Old 10-16-2007, 12:15 AM   #3 (permalink)
redlinediesel
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Thanks for the info. How would I know what "hard " parts to buy. What would failure of metering valve, new fuel pump vanes and linerEID governor weight retainer,DB2 pumps need oversize advance pistons. Basically to avoid the guessing what should I look for once the pump is a part.
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Old 10-16-2007, 08:59 AM   #4 (permalink)
jdemaris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redlinediesel View Post
Thanks for the info. How would I know what "hard " parts to buy. What would failure of metering valve, new fuel pump vanes and linerEID governor weight retainer,DB2 pumps need oversize advance pistons. Basically to avoid the guessing what should I look for once the pump is a part.
All the metal moving parts that seal or meter diesel fuel fit with extemely close tolerances. Tenths of thousanths - you cannot check with a micrometer. You check by feel and by eye and it's pretty easy. If a part is worn - you see it right way - it will have wear patterns that are easy to see. If a part looks perfect - and feels perfect - than you can assume it is.
The metering valve moves back and forth whenever the engine is running. It is a sort of gate-valve - and simply meters low-pressure raw fuel through the pump. When it gets worn, the engine might not always shut down properly - and/or may not idle well. A new one is around $18.
The pilot-tube bushing is where the shaft-seals ride that keep diesel fuel separated from engine oil. The driveshaft rotates inside of the bushing whenever the engine is running and gets ridges worn into it. A new bushing is around $8.
Pump vanes and liner are in the back of the injection-pump and make up the low-pressure fuel pump that sends fuel on to the high-pressure pump and also provide low-pressure fuel to run the timing advance. New vanes, springs, and liner cost around $20 total.
The timing advance works via a steel piston and sealing ring - that rides inside the soft-metal pump housing. This is a common wear area. If the soft-metal bore gets scored - a fix is to bore it out oversize and install an oversize advance piston. New piston costs around $14.
Pellathane governor weight retainer (flex ring) - it was used in just about all Roosamaster/Stanadyne rotary D, DB, JDB, DB, DB2, DC etc. pumps until 1985. It was a chronic failure point and was totally eliminated in 1985. Pumps with the old-ring were supposed to be updated to the newer EID assembly (elastomer insert drive). Updated pumps were supposed to get a metal tag attached to them - but I suppose many of those tags are long gone. A new EID cost $30-$40.
One other item - is the most expensive part of the pump - and pretty much is not worth the expense of replacing. It is the head & rotor assembly and it the distributor section of the pump. It takes each fuel charge and sends it along to the proper cylinder. Most pump shops will not accept your old pump for exchange if the head & rotor is bad. If real bad - it siezes and causes the pump drive-shaft to shear in half (by design). If worn/scored - it usually results in hot engines that will not start until they cool down - or you pour cold water over the pump.
Last I checked a new head & rotor cost over $400 - but I've heard there may be some Chinese parts available now at a lower cost. I haven't worked in a pump shop since 1991 - so I'm not always up to date on all of this. I still fix pumps where I live on a limited basis - so I only keep up with the parts I actually buy.
__________________
1982 K10 PU 6.2 diesel,1983 (two) Blazers 6.2 diesel, TH400, 1983 K5 Blazer with 6.2 diesel, 4sp man. OD trans. and Chalet pop-up camper body.
1986 K5 Blazer 6.2 diesel, 700R4 trans.- with Halmark pop-up camper body.
1987 V20 4WD Suburban 6.2 diesel, 1988 K5 Blazer 6.2 diesel, 700R4. 1989 GMC 3/4 ton, 4WD Suburban, 6.2 diesel, TH400 trans.
1991 Suburban 4WD 6.2 diesel 700R4 trans.
1981 (two of them) Chevy Chevette with 1.8 diesel and 5 sp. trans.
1985 Isuzu P'UP 4WD pickup with 2.2 diesel
1991 (Two of them) Volkswagen Jetta 1.6 diesel
1985 Ford F250 4WD ex-cab, longbed, 6.9 diesel
1994 Ford F250 4WD ex-cab, longbed, 7.3 IDI turbodiesel.
1983 Mercedes 300D five-cylinder turbo-diesel
1992 Dodge D200 4WD Cummins turbo-diesel, intercooled with 5 spd Gertrag
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Old 11-12-2007, 01:08 AM   #5 (permalink)
mclean_stu
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DB2 Injection pump rebuild

I have a DB 2 pump apart at the moment and I have a few questions about repairing it. Firstly it's from a 7.3L engine that was pouring out smoke and missing at all speeds, this problem developed very guickly. I removed the pump and took it apart. It is rather simple, amazing really. I have rebuild info, but it's for a 6.2L so, I'm not sure which settings will be different. I have a pulse timing adapter, and gauges so I think I can handle the calibration on the truck. I'm wondering what solvent I should use to clean the pump? I have inspected it and found the bumps on the cam ring to look worn, the advance piston looks worn, as would be the case, other then that everything looks and feels fine. so would it sound reasonable to change: seals, cam ring, cam roller, roller shoes, advance pistion(oversized after machining the case) and transfer pump components? Would you have the 7.3L settings, and can I buy the parts myself at the local syandadyne dealer? Thank you so much for any advice you can give.
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Old 11-12-2007, 05:10 PM   #6 (permalink)
jdemaris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclean_stu View Post
I have a DB 2 pump apart at the moment and I have a few questions about repairing it. Firstly it's from a 7.3L engine that was pouring out smoke and missing at all speeds, this problem developed very guickly.

I have inspected it and found the bumps on the cam ring to look worn, the advance piston looks worn, as would be the case, other then that everything looks and feels fine. so would it sound reasonable to change: seals, cam ring, cam roller, roller shoes, advance pistion(oversized after machining the case) and transfer pump components? Would you have the 7.3L settings, and can I buy the parts myself at the local syandadyne dealer? Thank you so much for any advice you can give.
You might want to price some parts at:
www.usdiesel.com US Diesel in Fort Worth Texas is a dealer and will ship. 800-328-0037

They sell OEM Stanadyne and also aftermarket. The cam-ring seems to be a common wear item in automotive pumps. I rarely found a worn ring in industrial and farm-equipment pumps that were run on off-road diesel - so I suspect it's got something to do with pump fuel and low-lube. But, who knows?

Like I said -price the parts first. In some cases - you can buy a "rebuilt" pump cheaper than the sum of the parts when you do it yourself. All depends.

The seal kit is around $15, the fuel pump vanes, springs, and liner another $15, a new metering vavle around $12, advance piston $15, etc. Not sure if the cam-ring is available aftermarket. If will be pricey from Stanadyne.
I buy junkyard pump whenever available if cheap (like around $25). You can get a lot of good spare parts that way.

In regard to the specs - I don't have the roller-to-roller specs for your pump. I suggest you just leave that part alone if you don't have the specs. If you want more - or - less fuel delivery later - it's easy to adjust from outside the pump.

In regard to timing with the pulse-adapter - it's really meant for a relative reading of timing advance - more than a specific reading. It WILL tell you how much the advance is travelling. If the advance wasn't working at all - the engine would skip and smoke when you revved the engine - especically when cold or no-load.

Ford doesn't give general timing specs for the 6.9 or 7.3 - it all depends on what the engine is installed in, specific cetane of the fuel being used, and the altitude the engine is being run at. Actual timing inside the combustion chamber (as seen by a luminosity probe) can be set anywere from 8 degrees BTDC at 2000 RPM, to 7 degrees ATDC at 1400 RPM. Using a pulse-adapter is going to be quite different since it reads earlier than the actual time of combustion. Often 6 to 12 degrees earlier than timing with a luminosity probe. A good ballpark though - with the pulse adapter is 13-15 degrees BTDC at 1600 RPM.

You've got to have a way of boring the housing oversize if you're installing an oversize advance piston. That's another thing that tends to be better on AG and Industrial pumps - they have a steel cylinder that the advance piston rides in.

Here's a write-up from some guys that experimented quite a bit with DB2 pumps on GM and Ford diesels. They are using a luminosity probe. It's pretty well written:


Test # 1: We went to 3.5 BTDC @ 1300 RPM. The engine clack is noticabely louder at idle to about 1500. Beyond that, the volume and quality of the clack sounds normal. As predicted, turbo lag increased slightly, and boost levels were down by about 1/2 psi. There was a substantial increase in smoke throughout the rpm range, but cruising EGTs were lower by 50-75 degrees


Test #2: We turned the timing down to 2 ATDC @ 1300. There is nearly zero black smoke unless you're really hammering down on it. Boost is more responsive throughout the rpm range, but power is down just slightly. All this at the cost of EGTs. They are much higher than desired at around 750 cruising at 60 mph. They rise quickly on any hill, too.

Test #3: We bumped the mark forward to 2 BTDC @ 1300 rpm. There's hardly any smoke, power is good, and turbo lag is almost non-existent. Fuel economy increased slightly by an average of .75 mpg. This is a goodl setup for a conservative fuel rate (less than 60 cu mm) and low pressure injectors like the 1800 psi 6.2L long style.
__________________
1982 K10 PU 6.2 diesel,1983 (two) Blazers 6.2 diesel, TH400, 1983 K5 Blazer with 6.2 diesel, 4sp man. OD trans. and Chalet pop-up camper body.
1986 K5 Blazer 6.2 diesel, 700R4 trans.- with Halmark pop-up camper body.
1987 V20 4WD Suburban 6.2 diesel, 1988 K5 Blazer 6.2 diesel, 700R4. 1989 GMC 3/4 ton, 4WD Suburban, 6.2 diesel, TH400 trans.
1991 Suburban 4WD 6.2 diesel 700R4 trans.
1981 (two of them) Chevy Chevette with 1.8 diesel and 5 sp. trans.
1985 Isuzu P'UP 4WD pickup with 2.2 diesel
1991 (Two of them) Volkswagen Jetta 1.6 diesel
1985 Ford F250 4WD ex-cab, longbed, 6.9 diesel
1994 Ford F250 4WD ex-cab, longbed, 7.3 IDI turbodiesel.
1983 Mercedes 300D five-cylinder turbo-diesel
1992 Dodge D200 4WD Cummins turbo-diesel, intercooled with 5 spd Gertrag
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Old 11-13-2007, 10:59 AM   #7 (permalink)
mclean_stu
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Thanks a lot for all your advice, it's a huge help. I'm not too worried about setting the timing, I have other good running trucks i can check to compare the timing. I have found that with my adapter 8.5 BTDC (1 ATDC really) at 2000 rpm works pretty well. I not looking too much for proformance, just stock power and economy really. I'm still kinda wondering what type of solvent I should use to clean all these parts, Acetone maybe? I'm also woundering about the tolerances/possiblities for changing the advance cylinder. I could use a lathe with a four jaw chuck, but i imagine it would have to be honed after, not sure if that would work so good. Are sleeves avalible and are the hard to install? Thank you again for all your advice.
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Old 11-17-2007, 03:30 PM   #8 (permalink)
dieselolds
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I usually clean the parts with brake/parts cleaner along with compressed air and that has always worked great for me.
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1978 Chevrolet K20....with '81 5.7L DIESEL DX block/TH400

1993 Chevrolet K1500 Z71....with newly rebuilt '97 6.5 TD (506 squirter block)

1997 Chevrolet K1500 ext.cab Z71....6.5 TD engine is out....New Genuine GM 6.2 660 short block takes its place.Equipped with 4L80E/6.5TD cylinder heads and DS4 injection system.

1998 Chevrolet K1500 Z71.....with a '87 6.2L DIESEL and 700R4.

2002 Volkswagen Jetta TDI.....with a 1.9L turbo diesel/5 speed.Cold air intake system.

2013 Volkswagen Passat TDI comfortline....with 6 speed manual tranny and 2.0L turbo diesel.
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