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pulling fuel injector issues...

6K views 36 replies 9 participants last post by  Bigboytoys 
#1 ·
I'm replacing my injectors and ran into a few issues with 3 of them--this is a 91 g30 van, if that makes a difference: it seems as though the passenger side ones have the head bolts butted almost against the injectors. SO my 30mm socket won't fit down between the head bolt and 2 of the 4 injectors to get enough purchase to twist them. Has anyone actually had to pull some head bolts to get these out, or is there a thinner-walled socket out there?

I'm having some clearance issue on the farthest forward driver side injector with the firewall. I can fit the socket, but can quite fit my breaker bar or ratchet onto it in place--might try to find a 30 mm wrench to get that one..

Anyway, I just figured I'd ask if anyone has had any experiences like this in case there are some "dirty little secrets" that could help make my life a little easier.
Cheers!
Stephen
 
#2 ·
I used a 1 3/16" impact socket which almost the same. I had to grind down the mouth of it a little bit all the way around to make it clear enough, worked fine after that
 
#3 ·
I'm replacing my injectors and ran into a few issues with 3 of them--this is a 91 g30 van, if that makes a difference: it seems as though the passenger side ones have the head bolts butted almost against the injectors. SO my 30mm socket won't fit down between the head bolt
My Snap-On S-6128 GM injector socket is thinner then any of my regular 30 mm or 1 3/16" sockets. If fits when they sometimes will not.
 
#10 ·
My Snap-On S-6128 GM injector socket is thinner then any of my regular 30 mm or 1 3/16" sockets. If fits when they sometimes will not.
mmmmm, snap-on....:drool::drool:..... by the way JD, is this the socket you are sending us for xmas...LOL

by the way, x2 on getting all the injectors pop-tested to see that they are the same, jdemaris will be able to say if the nozzles are all the same.....
and :welcome2::welcome: to diesel place.....
 
#4 ·
:ditto:What he said bout the Snap On injector socket, fits like a glove!
 
#5 ·
I did my injectors and holy mother of god, :mad: some front ones were a royal PITA. I bought the Snap On socket and took out all the injectors without removing head bolts. You will have to use a combination of thin ratchet's and wrench's as the above socket takes a wrench.
 
#6 ·
I've done this in a van. It is hard. The front passenger side you can get if you reach into the engine bay left side with your left hand below the alternator. The drivers side you can reach from the bottom front of the vehicle. OTC 5060 helps a lot.
 
#7 ·
I read that you should take out the alt, makes it easier but I didn't, too stubborn.
 
#8 ·
Thanks everyone! new question

got the back (front of the van) drivers' one with a big 30mm wrench. I'll grind down the socket I have to make it work. Now I have another quick question on Injectors:

The Bosch ones that are currently in there aren't the same # as the ones recommended by Rock Auto & a few of the other sites out there. The current ones are Bosch 0430211058. I found a killer deal on some new Bosch ones that list as compatible (Bosch 0432217092 (NA51X)), but it's only 5 injectors available. Will these work with a 91 6.2 van? Is there a problem using 5 of these and 3 new ones that are the same model as the ones in there now?

THANKS!!!
Stephen
 
#9 ·
I wouldn't mix and match unless you have them checked.
 
#11 ·
Huh, is the 6.2 van different than the truck ?? I never had to remove headbolts and I have changed probably atleast 100 of them(Most of that recently...:) )
Now I wanna go in the garage and look . Which cyls were you having trouble with ? I us the OTC 5060 as well. You can use an open end wrench on it in tight spaces.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Its so tight in there that you don't have much wiggle room, :(

If/when I have to do headgaskets, I am dropping the engine.
 
#13 ·
quick update

Talked to the fine folks @ bosch and they said that the old injectors weren't actually spec'ed for my vehicle anyway, so my best bet is to replace them all with the Bosch 0432217092 (NA51X)'s...so that's the plan! did someone here have a link to some sweet clear return tubing that can take the heat and abuse without clamps?
thanks a ton, fellas!!!
Stephen
 
#14 ·
Your probably talking about Tygon for fuel return lines.
The new "regular" return lines you get don't require clips except for the end caps.
 
#17 ·
thanks!

FWIW, after grinding down my 30mm impact socket, it fit between the head bolts and I was easily able to remove all the remaining injectors...2 of them weren't even the same model as the rest! Should have my new ones tomorrow to install. Apart from backing off the fuel lines a bit from tight and cranking off and on for 30 seconds, should I do anything else to bleed? Will I also want to bleed from the bleeder port behind the rectangular fuel filter?
THANKS GUYS!!!
Stephen
 
#18 ·
When your bleeding pull the glow plugs if it's not too much hassle.
Get as many as you can out, it's easier on the starter and your batteries.
 
#19 ·
X2 on pulling the glows to bleed the injectors. Also gives the chance to inspect/verify them.....winter is coming. When the injectors are misting fuel out the glow plug holes, replace the glow plugs and you are good to go. Be prepared for some knocking, as any air that remained does not burn well and will cause some fierce noises.....will settle down as injectors finish self-bleeding.
 
#20 ·
Thanks fellas!

Got the new ones in today. It was gonna be a pain to pull the glow plugs (and I just replaced them last year), but it still only took 3 or 4 minutes of cranking before I started getting dribbles of fuel out of all the lines. After tightening everything down, she fired right up! Went for a 1/2 hour drive with a good bit of mountainous uphills. Everything sounds good with good power, but a bit more white smoke than before. I'm hoping that that will eventually go away as all the small bubbles work their way out. Sounds like several of the old injectors were stuck open....not sure how it was running so well before ;)

anyways, huge thanks to everyone who chimed in!
Stephen
 
#21 ·
#22 ·
Thanks for the timing info! I'll check that today. Everything seems to be running well so far :)

FWIW, I got my new injectors (Bosch 0432217092(NA51X)) off ebay from a guy in Denver for $22 a piece--new in boxes...even pulled one apart checked the nozzle--legit. They're liquidating a Bosch factory or something. He says that he has lots of injectors and 6 more of the ones I used. His ebay name is "terrific_products". If anyone's looking for injectors, it might be worth shooting him a message. I didn't get great communication, but ended up with new injectors dirt cheap. I have no association with the guy, but figured someone else might appreciate a lead on a good deal.

Thanks again!
Stephen
 
#23 ·
re:timing

BigBoyToys,

I pushed in on the advance lever while idling warmed up...The engine just slowed a bit, which according to the timing thread you linked, http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=427080 ,

means it's actually a bit too far advanced, no? I'm currently at altitude (denver), but driving back to close to sea level for the next month, so I may check it again once I'm east. Is it a major pain to adjust the timing a bit?

THANKS for everything guys! What a great forum!
Stephen
 
#24 ·
If this was a truck without cruise it wouldn't be bad. There are 3 x 15 mm nuts that hold the pump to the cover. You's have to remove the cruise actuator bracket to get to the mounting nuts. Just loosen the nuts and move it 1/2 a lines width to the passenger side to retard it.
 
#35 ·
#25 ·
Thanks!

BBT,
Thanks! it's a van (which makes it a pain), but no cruise (which makes it easier). Do you think that there's any chance that I should just turn up the fuel a bit at the pump? it sounds like my old injectors were all either stuck open, or had really low pop pressures, so might it not just need a bit more fuel to pop these at the right times? Is white smoke sometimes a symptom of not quite enough fuel?
Thanks!

Stephen
 
#27 ·
yep...impact socket...question:

yeah, it was an impact socket, but grinding it down made everything fit just fine :)

Ah well: I'm definitely getting fairly constant white smoke now... and a lot less black than before I replaced the injectors. It's not a huge amount, but it begins when I start it, and just kinda stays. Once it's warmed up, no smoke @ idle, but under much load it's there, unless I put it way under load, then it switches to black. It's running well....no rocking, backfiring, stumbling, sputtering, and feels like I have plenty of power. Should I try to advance the timing a bit, even though the "push the advance level" test showed it a bit advanced already? Maybe turn up the fuel a little?

Thanks!
Stephen
 
#28 ·
Have you done a compression test? Did you get the injectors tested before you installed them?
 
#29 ·
Didn't get a compression test, but none of the other HG symptoms (radiator tube not getting hard, oil is coolant free, coolant isn't frothing or bubbling) and the white smoke smells of diesel.

I didn't have the new injectors tested, but apparently at least 4 of the old injectors were stuck open when I had them tested, so I'd be surprised if these new ones could be worse... Didn't have this issue with the old (stuck open) ones...I wonder if the new ones need more pressure to pop, which might require turning the fuel up a hair, or no?
Thanks for all your help!
Stephen
 
#30 ·
Low compression doesn't have to be a head gasket issue. White smoke can be unburned fuel so if your other injectors where that bad then the engine could be damaged and the compression is low in those cylinders, causing the white smoke.

Its possible the new injectors are bad or the pump is damaged/worn from the bad injectors.

I would do a compression test before you replace anymore parts and I wouldn't add any more fuel, you have enough, :p:
 
#31 · (Edited)
If you have unburnt fuel, turning the pump up more, will not fix this. Turning the pump up will not change whether or not the pump is creating enough pressure to pop injectors. The highest pop pressure that we seen is just over 3,000psi. These injector pumps create 10,000 psi, and is a wear issue between plungers and the rotor and the wear between the head and rotor. The common symptoms are erratic pumping (missing) and hard starting when pump is wearing out.

If your timing is still too advanced, you need to retard it a little more. The white smoke when you first start the truck, is improperly burnt fuel. As the truck warms up, this smoke clears. When running on the highway, pump will be advanced due to housing pressure increase due to rpm's (internal charge pump) If pump is too far advanced, the fuel is being injected before the cylinder compression is at optimum to burn the fuel. You could have the scenario very similar to when truck is warming up. Retard the timing a little more, until you have a noticeable stumble when pressing the advance lever on the side of the pump.

Do a couple more runs with it retarded another dimes width and give us news.
 
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