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Old 08-18-2004, 10:44 AM   #1 (permalink)
Yamahauler
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We are looking for a new toyhauler that will be substantially larger than the one we have now. Several of the units we are looking at have GVWR ratings of 17,000 to 18,000 lbs, and are 40 to 41 ft. fifth wheel trailers with triple axles. Our new truck has a maximum tow rating of 16,800 lbs.


Do I need to worry about this or not? Many trips will be done towing less than the maximum GVWR of the toyhauler, simply because we don't always travel with all of the water tanks and fuel pump station topped off, and because our 4 ATVs together weigh less than 2,000 lbs. So it is unlikely that we would have a full 6,000 lbs worth of cargo in the toyhauler, but possible. Can I safely tow just above the maximum rated towing capacity of my one ton dually, or is this something that should be "avoided at all cost"?
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Old 08-18-2004, 11:46 AM   #2 (permalink)
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This will bring a few out of the woodwork.

Short answer: No, tow away. I'm pulling 20,000 infrequently behind mine. No issues. Don't expect to keep your speed up all the time though. Just ain't enough power.

There are some precautions and legal constrains. First, you must never exceed the individual axle ratings or the GVW for the trailer or truck. Depending on how you load the trailer it is easy to put too much load on the truck. What you can pull is based more on what you can stop than power. The trailer brakes count here and it is imperative that you keep them in good working order. A good rule of thumb here is that a highway rated axle has braking power sufficient to stop it's rated load. Why I mention this is that many trailer manufacturers take credit for the trucks stopping power in their GVW ratings.

For instance a trailer rated at 18,000 may only have two 7,000 lb axles expecting the truck to pick up the extra 4,000 pounds. This will be a problem on steep grades. You don't have enough stopping power. My trailer, though rated at 20,000 has three 7,000 lb axles. This is overkill, but it is also peace of mind.

Anyway, from what you described, a triple axle trailer as long as the axles are rated 5,000 lb or better will be fine.Edited by: Fingers
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Old 08-18-2004, 01:41 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fingers
This will bring a few out of the woodwork.

This is gona be good...
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Old 08-18-2004, 03:10 PM   #4 (permalink)
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First DITTO what Fingers said. I guess since I tow identical to what you are considering purchasing and we have almost identical vehicles I'll put my .02 cents worth in this post. Yeah Zeeb, everytime someone post the ole towing question it gets very interesting on this site.


I tow a 40' Sunnybrook SUV391, dry weight 13,426 lbs, fully loaded 16,600 lbs. GVWR 18k, triple axle, Mor-ryde suspension. You will definitely know its back there. My stock D/A tows my unit pretty well. I do plan on a TTS or similar tow tune in the near future though. Some will suggest a 4500 D/A or Ford F450/550. Since you've already purchased your truck, unless you have "money-to-burn" 3500 it is!


I'm a big believer in keeping the RPM's above 2000 when towing for more HP, torque and cooling (I like 2200-2500). I use the tow-haul mode religiously when towing. I can tow in 5th gear at 70mph on flat lands, 55-60 in 4th with hills/inclines.


You might also consider a brush/push guard just in case Bambi decides to cross the street at the wrong time. Swirving with that much weight behind you can be disastrous.


As you know toy haulers take on a totally different dynamic than conventional trailers since they are designed to take on considerable amounts of weight on their ass ends. The units you are looking at probably have little, if any, weight on the rear axles sitting dry. I recently purchased an electric utility cart to use for my business and the extra weight (700-800lbs) is causing some "bucking" on the pin, sort of a pendulum effect. I'm going to redistribute some weight to the front of the RV this weekend to eliminate this. Might even add a generator since it is pre-wired. That should give me an extra 200lbs on the pin. You've probably noticed your dually rides better with 3-4k pounds of pin weight on it. Expect somewhere around 8-9 mpg, less in the mountains.


What units are you looking at? We looked at KZ, Holiday Rambler, Keystone, and several other units before settling on the Sunnybrook. What sold me on Sunnybrook was: owner loyalty; the attention to detail/fit-finish; AND MOST IMPORTANTLY I spoke with a manager at an RV towing company who informed me that other manufacturers units they haul will disintegrate in an accident, whereas the Sunnybrooks often could be uprighted and driven away. They utilize larger frames than most, I liked that! Good luck!


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Old 08-18-2004, 05:35 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Ditto what Fingers said.


I would take your new found info and run for the hills as the out of the woodwork comment is an understatement.
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Old 08-18-2004, 11:03 PM   #6 (permalink)
Yamahauler
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JJs,


After all is said and done, we will probably end up purchasing a Dune Chaser 37CK fifth wheel. We have also been looking at a Rampage 385, and have even looked at an Alfa Toyhouse THF40R, but that one is probably out of my price range. The Dune Chaser is essentially at the weight limit of my truck, with a GVWR of 16,950 lbs. The Rampage 385 has a GVWR of 17,600 lbs, and the Alfa THF40R has a GVWR of 18,500 lbs.Edited by: Yamahauler
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Old 08-19-2004, 12:36 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJs DuMax


As you know toy haulers take on a totally different dynamic than conventional trailers since they are designed to take on considerable amounts of weight on their ass ends. The units you are looking at probably have little, if any, weight on the rear axles sitting dry. I recently purchased an electric utility cart to use for my business and the extra weight (700-800lbs) is causing some "bucking" on the pin, sort of a pendulum effect. I'm going to redistribute some weight to the front of the RV this weekend to eliminate this. Might even add a generator since it is pre-wired. That should give me an extra 200lbs on the pin. You've probably noticed your dually rides better with 3-4k pounds of pin weight on it. Expect somewhere around 8-9 mpg, less in the mountains.


What units are you looking at? We looked at KZ, Holiday Rambler, Keystone, and several other units before settling on the Sunnybrook. What sold me on Sunnybrook was: owner loyalty; the attention to detail/fit-finish; AND MOST IMPORTANTLY I spoke with a manager at an RV towing company who informed me that other manufacturers units they haul will disintegrate in an accident, whereas the Sunnybrooks often could be uprighted and driven away. They utilize larger frames than most, I liked that! Good luck!


JJ

DuMax, redistributing the weight will help if not cure the bucking if it was not there before. I have also found the hitch height is paramount in keeping the slam to a minimum. For me, the trailer pulls best if the front axle is unloaded about 1/2" more than the back. That is, the trailer is slightly tongue high.

I fought a bad bucking problem the first couple of times I towed real heavy (30,200 GCVW) and was at the limited on how much weight I could shift forward. I noticed that the front axle was loaded up too much so I raised the hitch, and all has been well since. Of course, your milage may vary.

Edited by: Fingers
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Old 08-19-2004, 11:49 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Fingers, thanks for the intel. I have to ask what are you towing at 30,200 GCVW? I've seen where guys tow regularly in the 30k+ range with these trucks. JJ
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Old 08-19-2004, 12:25 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I had a custom tri axle gooseneck dump built with a 18' bed. I haul darn near everything in it. Skid loader, backhoe, gravel, most anything. I'll see if I can sratch up a picture for you. This replaces my 10 ton dump and trailer. Rides nicer too.

BTW, 3x7000# axles plus 9,200 GVW pickup = 30,200 GCVW. All within Mfg specs.
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Old 08-21-2004, 09:44 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fingers
I had a custom tri axle gooseneck dump built with a 18' bed. I haul darn near everything in it. Skid loader, backhoe, gravel, most anything. I'll see if I can sratch up a picture for you. This replaces my 10 ton dump and trailer. Rides nicer too.

BTW, 3x7000# axles plus 9,200 GVW pickup = 30,200 GCVW. All within Mfg specs.

And in some states (all states legally) make u get a CDL.


I take it u have a class A CDL fingers?





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