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Old 01-27-2013, 10:42 PM   #191 (permalink)
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That's my opinion. Others have their own opinion.
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:05 PM   #192 (permalink)
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It's a smoke and mirrors game with the EPA. They go after the small guys who can't afford to fight. They know it's low-hanging fruit and they need the cash to survive. So they get millions from a few of these specialty tuner manufacturers. They got Edge for 500k, plus they nailed 'em for another 170k they have to spend (so the EPA can look like they didn't just take the money like they did for the 500k), they got H&S (not sure if there was cash involved or not), they (CARB) got Dynojet for the Power Commander (Motorcycle tuners) a few years ago for over a million and they nailed a few more just like these guys.

This isn't really about cleaner air, but more about a cash grab - that's all. The "cleaner air" thing is mostly BS in cases like these. It's basically just simple extortion, leveraging the "law" to get cash so they can pay the jackasses pushing pencils at the EPA. The EPA and other similar so-called gvt entities survive mostly by the money they extort from companies like these, not by federal funding. There are those who would argue this. They are not in the know, are asleep, or they buy into the crap and propaganda being spread by these entities.
You are talking out of your ass.
This whole thing is a wakeup call. Embrace it and start tuning clean or get the hell out. The manufacturers are going to lock more computers and make it harder for us to make power. Since when did true hot rodders back off from that? We have the ability to make things better and guess what? the mmanufacturers will pick up on our mods and use them. They always have because we are smart. Look at Audi; they are kicking ass with their diesel cars and burning clean. Imagine that.
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Old 01-28-2013, 06:07 AM   #193 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mike L. View Post
I've lived in LosAngeles since 1960 and I can report on what the changes have been.
In the early and mid '60's you could not see the high rise buildings unless you were within 5 miles. Schools were closed down on a regular basis because of smog ( you could not see the sun as it was in a gray haze ). Breathing was tough on older people although I was young and it didn't bother me. But I saw it and it was bad.
LosAngeles looks pretty good now because of the EPA and people can breathe. The skyline is clear and you can see the high rise buildings from many miles away. This is a good thing. The EPA has its place but needs to be reigned in because of employees personal agenda and power trip. They do go overboard and should be checked.
The way of the future is clean power without smoke and it can be done. Tuners that promote smoke tunes should be reported and prosecuted.
I agree with mike that the EPA do have a purpose but do occasionally go on power trips either to flex their muscles or money grab. Where does the money actually go???
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:23 AM   #194 (permalink)
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And we would be making other countries comply........ We go after other countries for other agendas......

All so silly....
aahhh yes; the old argument...the EPA is too powerful, why are they picking on the little guy, we should do away with them. The federal government has no right to tell me what to do.......








....We should make the federal government go after other sovereign nations. we should impose our will on them. that's how freedom works.
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:15 AM   #195 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 20052500HD8100 View Post
Well on this logic, all new cars should now be required to come with an interlock device to ensure that end users are not drinking alcohol and then driving. After all, it is the manufacturers responsibility to take reasonable steps to prevent abuse of their products by drunks.
Signed -- your nearest scumbag american lawyer
Do some search's online that is already in the works.
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:51 AM   #196 (permalink)
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With most large cities requiring emission testing these days,why don't they just test the vehicle and see if it pass's.I would think that these newer trucks could be modified and still pass the tail pipe test.That is whats important after all.
Around my area I don't know if I have seen a 08 or newer truck blowing black smoke.I'm sure there is,but very limited.I do see a lot of older trucks rolling the coal.Mostly kids,all older trucks.These trucks had no emission equipment anyway,just wonder how they will crack down on that.All I know is the epa is driving up the price of older trucks big time.I see mid 90's dodges with 300kmiles on them and guys asking $10k.01 to 03 GM trucks around $15k.Seems a little crazy for 10 to 15 year old trucks.I guess if a new one is $60k whats a guy gonna buy.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:23 AM   #197 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mike L. View Post
...LosAngeles looks pretty good now because of the EPA and people can breathe. The skyline is clear and you can see the high rise buildings from many miles away. This is a good thing.
Clean air is a good thing. And the EPA's actions are intended to improve air quality, not just justify their existence (no more than any other government agency, at least).

Key points:

A poorly running engine (due to a "smoking" tune or some other reason) puts out many times more pollution than its oem counterpart.

The number of late model diesel trucks that have been modified to "blow smoke" is a very small percentage of the total number of late model diesel trucks, which is itself a small percentage of the total number of late model motor vehicles. Although the "smoke blowers" do put out a lot of pollution, there just aren't that many of them, and because of their typical usage (i.e.: they aren't high mileage fleet vehicles) they usually aren't driven all that much. In addition, they aren't "blowing smoke" all the time.

Somebody who has a compulsion to "blow smoke" could do the same thing in a true "off-road" race vehicle if they wanted to. This "off-road" race vehicle might have just a big of an impact on overall air quality as a rarely driven street legal vehicle. But the EPA can't restrict true "off-road" race vehicles (yet).

So, as bad as "blowing smoke" is, it simply is not a significant component of the overall air quality problem. There are many other sources of air pollution (like marine engines in foreign-registered ships) that are a bigger part of the overall problem, but the EPA may not be able to do as much about those (yet), and late model vehicles that have been modified to "blow smoke" are clearly within their jurisdiction, and...

...the immature idiots who do "blow smoke" (especially those who posted videos of them doing it in their street legal late model trucks*), especially those who do it as a way of saying "F-U" to other drivers, have attracted the ire of people who inevitably complained, and have succeeded in making this problem look a LOT bigger than it really is.


This is a scenario that has repeated itself throughout human history, in just about every possible situation: the few abusers ruin things for everyone else.





* and the top Darwin award winner in this category has to be the company that is the subject of this thread.
Wasn't H&S the first to post videos of LMLs blowing smoke with their tuners?
They were pretty flagrant about asking for it, almost as if they failed to consider that what they were doing is illegal.
Why should it have been any surprise that the inevitable happened?

Last edited by GoneNomad; 01-28-2013 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:58 PM   #198 (permalink)
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I remember the first videos that H&S posted as I was the staff member who had to discuss the fact that they weren't vendors here.

After the "I don't believe you tuned an LML, you guys are a bunch of liars" screams died off H&S did mention that the tunes were the very beginning stages and (IIRC) the smoke was certainly not intentional...and it did clear after spoolup even in those videos.

I'm sure I can dig up the thread this evening...
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:46 PM   #199 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonenomad View Post
clean air is a good thing. And the epa's actions are intended to improve air quality, not just justify their existence (no more than any other government agency, at least).

Key points:

A poorly running engine (due to a "smoking" tune or some other reason) puts out many times more pollution than its oem counterpart.

the number of late model diesel trucks that have been modified to "blow smoke" is a very small percentage of the total number of late model diesel trucks, which is itself a small percentage of the total number of late model motor vehicles. Although the "smoke blowers" do put out a lot of pollution, there just aren't that many of them, and because of their typical usage (i.e.: They aren't high mileage fleet vehicles) they usually aren't driven all that much. In addition, they aren't "blowing smoke" all the time.

Somebody who has a compulsion to "blow smoke" could do the same thing in a true "off-road" race vehicle if they wanted to. This "off-road" race vehicle might have just a big of an impact on overall air quality as a rarely driven street legal vehicle. But the epa can't restrict true "off-road" race vehicles (yet).

So, as bad as "blowing smoke" is, it simply is not a significant component of the overall air quality problem. There are many other sources of air pollution (like marine engines in foreign-registered ships) that are a bigger part of the overall problem, but the epa may not be able to do as much about those (yet), and late model vehicles that have been modified to "blow smoke" are clearly within their jurisdiction, and...

...the immature idiots who do "blow smoke" (especially those who posted videos of them doing it in their street legal late model trucks*), especially those who do it as a way of saying "f-u" to other drivers, have attracted the ire of people who inevitably complained, and have succeeded in making this problem look a lot bigger than it really is.


this is a scenario that has repeated itself throughout human history, in just about every possible situation: The few abusers ruin things for everyone else.





* and the top darwin award winner in this category has to be the company that is the subject of this thread.
Wasn't h&s the first to post videos of lmls blowing smoke with their tuners?
They were pretty flagrant about asking for it, almost as if they failed to consider that what they were doing is illegal.
Why should it have been any surprise that the inevitable happened?

exactly!!
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Quote this

Last edited by chevyinlinesix; 01-28-2013 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:50 PM   #200 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by PrivatePilot View Post
...H&S did mention that the tunes were the very beginning stages and (IIRC) the smoke was certainly not intentional...and it did clear after spoolup even in those videos.
That's why I asked that as a question. Perhaps I was being unfair toward H&S, but if I'm not mistaken there are many videos on youtube showing late model Dmax trucks blowing smoke (not just LMLs, but after it was demonstrated that the latest measures to thwart aftermarket tuning had been overcome, that may have served as the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak). I think the main point is still valid.

Last edited by GoneNomad; 01-28-2013 at 02:51 PM.
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